How a College Dropout Built Two Companies Through Freedom and Health

[00:00:00]Ronaldo Capaso is an Italian serial entrepreneur who currently lives in Australia. He is the founder of online monkeys, a marketing agency, co-founder of Socially Speaking, a teley health clinic for people who struggle with social challenges, particularly people with ADHD and autism, and host of his own podcast, Super Human Podcast.

[00:00:20]Ronaldo dropped out of industrial and molecular biotechnology in Naples and chased a different path in marketing and entrepreneurship.

[00:00:29]But he didn't leave it all behind as a common theme throughout his life seems to be biology and health leading Rnado to become somewhat of a biohacking entrepreneur.

[00:00:39]Today we are going to try uncover why Ronaldo dropped out and the pivotal moments in his life that have led him to where he is today. Ronaldo, welcome to the show. And I'd like to start by asking what is your current mission and is it the same as what you might have dreamed of when you were a kid in Italy?

[00:00:57]Well, first of all, thank you for the fantastic introduction. It looks like you know, you know, more than myself.

[00:01:04]Um, so that's definitely summarize it uh um greatly. My mission has changed over the years and I think it's going to go and change daily. Um but lately I'm keeping asking my this question what's my mission and a lot of time people start with big thing like I want to change the world I want to do um those you know crazy stuff that make an impact and I certainly want to do it like later on the podcast I'll I'll share what is my long-term vision uh right now my like what really drives me for everything I do it's helping my uh my close relatives so my family my dad, my brothers, you know, and making um their life easier um in whatever means like uh through mentorship or um and not only um being there for them.

[00:01:58]That's that's my that's what really drives me for everything I do in life which is totally different when I was a kid. I wanted to be a um first a farmer, right? right when I was a kid. Okay. I loved that was my dream being with the farmer, being with all the animals. Uh then I saw a goalkeeper and soccer player and then as obviously as I grow up like teenage years when you start to realize, you know, when you transition to being an adult, um I knew I wanted to um be independent and I think that's that's what remain consistent to to now like freedom is very important to me. is that gives you the opportunity to to be yourself and I knew at the time to achieve freedom I needed to get into entrepreneurship. I think I always had that um in me even though it was a long journey but only as a tool to get um financial freedom and with that comes a series of of other thing like you can be your attended self and do the things that you really want to do. So that's remained right. Uh but the drive is up in my family right now. Uh that's going to remain as well. And I think as I progress my journey, I also want to do things for other people. Um I've really learned in first person how that really is is important.

[00:03:24]uh but before helping others and I I guess I do help others with the business but in terms of a mission before making others the priority I want to make my close family the the priority first right and um and I think I'm doing a good job at it so far. Okay. And what what moment was it when you realized that hey this is what you need to do to create this like freedom be it financial mainly it's financial so you have the choice to to decide whatever you want to do with your time when was that like or what age was it in your career was it before you went to college or around that time no it was a bit later in life like I always knew I always had that dream but you know when sometimes you dream of things and you think they are not reachable uh to yourself so was a dream, but was like, "Okay, that's not for me." So, when I was in my early 20s, I still had that dream, but I knew it was too far for me to to achieve. Like, it's too far to run my business. It's too far to just go on the other side of the world, Australia. Um, was in the back of my mind, but I just I didn't really hope to achieve that. Um, so I I said, "Okay, I'm just going to go to school, going to study, find a good job." And in parallel I tried to do other things but was things um sometimes innovative things I I will say but always through third parties like an employer or um the mayor in some cases I did the project with the place where I where I used to live um that I designed pretty much I transformed um the suburb into a resort in Tama. It was a project that I pretty much written myself all the shows everything and that passed through I think regional fs right um so I was I had the desire of doing something different but the minute that I've got um that I decided to be an entrepreneur really I think it was when I came to Australia and when I realiz I remember was a a moment when I realized um I used to work in hospitality and for a very successful business and I realized that they were very successful. So I could see the numbers that they were doing and there was a moment that I realized how much money were they making and in proportion a how little I was getting and that that was the moment of the click for me was truly a click and uh I said no I want to if I need to work hard because I need to work hard anyway so if I need to do it I'd rather do it for myself right taking all the risks and doing it for myself so from that moment I still worked for someone else for a few years but the the mindset was different like I didn't like working for someone I was very um I felt the weight of working for for someone else like uh ah male playing someone else and know and know myself so was a transition because I had uh no contact my country and you know it takes a while and no education in terms of entrepreneurship and so on because I studied something um totally different uh and then a few is after I started the the marketing agency. Right. Right. So when you were working in hospitality, you were back in Italy. No, I was in Australia. You were in Australia. So you had already made that move. You'd already dropped out of college. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. 100%. And was there anyone that you looked up to apart from having this realization yourself, seeing the amount of money, you know, this business made and how little you were getting, was there any realization or or public figure that you were kind of, hey, they can do it, why not me? um more than public figure uh I was um following a lot of uh marketing gurus right so I wouldn't say public figures but people who made it to be uh you know their own boss and um and I thought that was very cool especially at the time I'm talking about 20 uh to about 20 years ago so was like when at the time the remote all the remote thing wasn't thing right like as much as now I said wow this this would be great like I could be anywhere and and still earning money. So those were the people that kind of was looking uh up to and um in marketing and the marketing thing came with uh because of a book I published a book in Italy uh totally this is not about marketing it's not about health was a design for me a mean to uh make some extra money okay and he helped me because thanks to that book I had enough funds to then move to London and uh probably I think that could be maybe that could have been my first entrepreneurial um move writing this book. Yeah, probably writing boogers. That was all all it was was through a publisher but was all all myself, right? Like I was selling something and what was the book on? Oh my gosh. Um was was about poetries. Okay. So it was a poetry book because I thought at the time I said oh I'm working I'm working. So at the time I'm talking about was uh early 20s. So, I was still I just dropped out of of of uni. Mhm. And I was working so much. I was working as an entertainer in resorts and uh and McDonald's as well. And um so the entertainment work was in summer, McDonald's was in winter. And I said, I need I need to get out of this. So I just have enough to to pay the bills.

[00:09:12]Yeah. Sometimes not even. So I said, I need to get out of this. I want to go. I I want I knew I wanted to leave Italy. I love Italy. I I love coming back. At the time for for me there was an I did try to do a lot of things um to kind of get out of uh you know to break out from that kind of trap that I was in that rat race that I was in. But I wouldn't say I failed but I did trust the wrong people. Mh. And uh so I said, "Oh, maybe I could write a book." That was the only thing that I could think of because I at the time I had pretty much no no skills, no contacts. So I said, "I was good at writing." I said, "I I can write a book." But I didn't have time to commit to a full book, right? And I said, "Okay, maybe um I can do poetries." Said, I mean, if I write a poetry day in a month, I would have 30 poetries. and um and maybe that would be enough for a small book manual.

[00:10:13]And so so I did. So it was a romantic was a romantic right through Italian.

[00:10:18]Yeah. Through true through Italian and u but people were very supporting uh I have to say uh I did pre-sale that book before it went live through people who um to guests of the resorts where I used to work from. been very kind in supporting me and uh I s I sold a few few copies and and I was able to to save enough money to just at least starting something new in in London, right? Um and then I think in London where um everything started for for me. Okay.

[00:10:56]So just to be clear then you didn't drop out of college because you weren't in not interested in the subject per se. It was more actually the whole kind of ecosystem where you were and not having the funds and the time to really put in the hours because you were too busy working trying to get money in to pay the bills. Yeah. And that's the reason you dropped out. Would you have gone back in time and finished that course looking back or do you think you made the right decision? No, I think I made the right decision. It's a bit of a pity because I didn't have long to go. I think I would have had nine months to to finish.

[00:11:33]So not long. Yeah. Uh nine months. So let's say one year. One month then you need to do the final exam. So right. Uh but I'm very happy where that choice led me to. Sometimes we need to push ourselves out of our comfort zone. That was my comfort zone going out because I was following everything that I needed to do. I still but I did love the subject. I love biology as biotechnology so even more because it's bio biology at the molecular level.

[00:12:07]So it's really my thing I still at present even after I left uni that's that's what I read. If I buy a book that's what I read you know but I I was I I don't think I've enjoyed my teenage years as much as other people around me. Mhm. Um I had I mean my dad is still alive, my mom is not. Um I think I've had the best parent. They gave me solid uh I call it life education so on. But when it comes to um I think having fun of doing the things that you want to do as or the things that I wanted to do at least which is not nothing crazy and just going out with friends on the weekend some trips and so on. I I couldn't do that. So that that part was gone. Okay. Um and so I compensated by studying it uh studying a lot and working in summer. Okay. And then with uni I would see this new chapter, right?

[00:13:07]So 18 to 21 I think was uh this new chapter. I was seeing exactly the same things that was happening for me in high school. So I was about quoteunquote worst because most expenses to sustain.

[00:13:21]So, I was waking up at 5:00, go to uni, finishing at 7, going home, um having arriving home by 7 by the time I take the bus and everything. Um study, eat, eat, study. Uh I was doing DJing at night to in the city where I used to live to get some money to um just to to get by. I was living with my parents that that helped. So, at least no rent and then doing it doing it all over again. So pretty much I I don't even know how I did it. I was sleeping literally four hours a night. Um it wasn't something that was like oh my life is miserable for me was normal was was was the norm. Now if I think about it I think maybe it's not the norm. Um but then few years after I say oh what am I doing with my life? I'm just still doing like a the world is beautiful to see. Mhm. I want to see the world. I want to travel. And I thought oh I still can find ways creative ways. So I did apply for a um Arasmus. Okay. Right. You you're from Europe as well. So you know like it's So I said maybe I can apply for it. So you get some um founds that allows you to still complete uni but overseas. Yeah. So I can see the world.

[00:14:37]I can combine the two things and I can work and maybe if I move overseas there are also more work opportunities for me.

[00:14:44]Um so I did apply for it. I did had the choice between Marcel and um Santiago the compos in Spain and I was over the moon. I said great I can do this right.

[00:14:56]So okay I can combine the new the those things together. Mhm. So and to close the loop about what I was doing in summer when you're supposed to rest I was working in resorts. Okay. So to close the loop about my life at the time was like study, eat, work and then during holidays working in resort as an entertainer. Mhm. Uh in summer in winter Santa Claus I was Santa Claus. So it was just not right. So every job pretty much that was you did correct. So it was no stop for me and for me was the norm.

[00:15:32]after a year after many years it becomes like oh wow I'm just studying working studying working studying working I'm not I'm not doing anything that is fun or fulfilling and so that that was the the um I think the d the buildup that I was accumulating over over the years this arasmous opportunity made me think okay I found a way to kind of compensate things I can still study and work and do the same type of lifestyle there but at least I'm in another city I can see the world. Then I found out that I could not do it because um I mean I could have done it but um you get some funds that uh to support you like you don't I think you don't have to pay for uni which is good big help. University needed is not that expensive anyway but and they give you some um funds to support your lifestyle there. Nothing crazy. Mh. Um, but I was really counting on those funds and I found out that they give it to you at the end of the six months later.

[00:16:37]Right. So as a reimbursement as a reimbursement kind of thing which for meant I cannot go because I did not even have the money to get on a raner to get there right like when I'm so it was that bad was everything gets planned right and so I said okay I cannot do it said that's fine let me finish uni. Mhm. and um let me finish uni and then I'll go I I'll work for a while, accumulate money, I can work more and then move overseas.

[00:17:08]That was the plan. I was very not content on how things were going. So what I did then was uh so the way I'm the reason why I'm saying this is because I want you to kind of visualize the um buildup over over the years, right, that that I had. And I think also the patience I was way more way more patient back then. So than than now. Then uh we were I think second years of uni by now and summer camp comes. So I said okay let me try and do something maybe be out of the ordinary. So I came up with this idea. So in Italy you have a many suburb. You got the main cities and then the many I mean every every country as the the suburbs. Um and in summer those suburbs becomes a bit dead because people goes go in holiday and a lot of people cannot afford to go on holiday.

[00:18:04]So I thought okay I can write this project it's called um I think it was called vonita which means uh resident in city like summer residence in your city something something like this and pretty much what I what I did I wrote this program which was two months of um entertainment activities um shows a night um with 60 different entertainment shows um tournaments uh a lot of activities through the day exactly like a resort and um through a program uh done in a way that a third party agency, entertainment agency comes in and teach the young people of that same suburb how to become resort entertainers, right? So they can then learn something, apply that in the context where they've grown up with and then the final result is you give work to people that are local.

[00:19:00]Yeah. and people who live there they cannot afford holidays they have like a result tournament a lot of activities so that project was doing very well um and I just had the passion for the novelty of it I was not even thinking about the money back then and um that was doing doing very well so well that all the suburbs around it you know the voice spread right and I remember at night time when I was in the evening when I was presenting the I start the first night with I don't know 200 people and by the time of the second week there were like thousands of people because there's not nothing to do there right so people talk oh let's go here so was become very became pretty successful um I remember I started seeing sponsors behind me on the you know on the stage a lot of but I didn't have the intuition I say oh money starting to move around and I'm talking about lots of money but but some something out of the ordinary for that context I I was very proud of myself because oh this is great like people are working the the retailers around that they got cues they never had cues like this um local TVs there like it's was something very very good and then I found out that um um that um out of I was getting peanuts out of everything that was happening and a couple of other things that um I really didn't like And um so that was uh my other attempt to break out like so pretty much people wanted to get the merit of that context of of that idea right and was not even an idea was also applied and u at the time I didn't care about the money I didn't care about anything so I passed on all those things but the only thing that I wanted it was at least the satisfaction I did something good in my 20s was and um so they wanted to take me out of that because they wanted because um they wanted to take the merit of it as a as a council. I don't know how to right. Yeah. The council like a council kind of initiative. They wanted to take the no mind like wrote um all the everything from start to finish. That was what made me click and I said okay just so let's abandon this. let me just leave these and go back in the so the council took that um and that failed that didn't go ahead um more uh because um I don't I don't know why uh but then another step on ah so frustrated with my life like you know I was trying to do things and then starts another another you know uni um year and the The way I was planning my money was I will do the entertainment for two through three months in summer. I will come back in September. Yeah, that's European summer. I'll come back in September, do all the exams from that term in September which was the last bit and and then again that routine like study DJ study DJ entertainment and but all the money that I made from summer which are not a lot I will take them uh and do the count of all the money I need through the years and split them for everything I need right like ex mathematic to the to the scent and my budget I remember to did two three days my daily allowance taking off the bus and my day allowance at the uni was €350 and this €350 was €1 for a coffee which now I think almost 20 years ago was a very overpriced coffee and €250 for a sandwich at uni that was my my allowance right and one day so just imagine all this frustration that was building up one day I just go to get a coffee I put a €2 to get my coffee Yeah. And um and the machine doesn't give me change, so I'm left with €150, right? And I said, "Oh, I can't I cannot eat. You'll find out I love eating." And um and uh I think that was the click moment. Talking about click moment. I was what am I doing with my life? Like I'm here like I'm 22. I'm working hard. I am read because I'm being proactive in in my initiative is I'm doing everything I can. I'm probably 20 21 at the time or approaching to be 21 and I haven't seen the world. I haven't done uh you know I haven't done much just pretty much starting and working. Yeah. And I said what's is this this going to be the projection of of life for the next you know six years because obviously with uni you do three years then you finish for what I wanted to do was three years then you finish you do two more years to specialize. Okay. Then you do other two years for what I wanted to do. Um I wanted to be um I don't know how to say that in English. Uh you know when there is a crime scene and the biologist comes to that was what I was studying to to be. Okay. And that will take so three years to finish the first degree but then would have taken more. I said I don't want to spend my more years like that. So if I need to be um miserable in a way that I struggle for money, I prefer in a way that at least I see the world and at least I travel because I really want to travel. So that day I drop out immediately. Like I came back home, I called the agency at the time, the entertainment agency. I said, "Hey, this this year I'm going to do a long season um because usually I will do three months." Okay? So this year I'm available for you for like six, seven months. And um so I did it. I took those money uh to pay for a private master um degree in uh tourist management because my backup plan was okay, I'm working um I'm kind of working in hospitality.

[00:25:01]Um I I still need to have a backup plan, right? I cannot just keep doing this for life. So that was my kind of backup plan. I did a long season of work, so I had a little bit more money. So I said I can move to Milan, which I did. I moved to to Milan for I think I didn't tell you that uh the the Milan part forgot about it and then I did this master in tourist management and that's when I I thought oh this master can help me to get a good job and I was working at McDonald's doing the master similar um but at least I was in Milan was like I was okay I'm I'm traveling right I wasn't traveling I was in McDonald's at home right and and uh and the master is it was a private master um degree Um, I did this for six, seven, six, seven months. I found out that that master private master degree wasn't really the answer to get a a proper job. Mhm. As I've been sold to said, okay, I need I need to get out of I need to I want to go to London, right? But I don't have enough. Um, why London?

[00:26:02]Uh, I wanted to learn I said, "Oh, I need to up my skills um and open to different audiences and different publics. I want to learn English." Mhm.

[00:26:11]And at the time everyone was doing London. Uh if I would go back instead of London probably I would have done Bath or like a different smaller smaller cities.

[00:26:22]But I said oh I need to if I do just the season now because by now was like uh probably May if I do just the season it's only three months. It's not enough for me. probably would be enough but then that means I get to London and I work the minute I get to London which is I need some um saving money to save and that's what I came up with the idea of the book I need to do something extra and I said oh I can do the book and so so I did and then I did this book and people bought it so I had a little bit of money from the book and a little bit of money from uh from my work and that's when I went in in London okay so then 22 23 year old Ronaldo turns up in London with a backpack maybe and he's looking at big Ben star scary starry eyes and thinking what's next and what happens there what happens in London yeah so in London for I was over the moon I said oh wow I did for me that was something big right so big was because it was and and that was the first realization I said okay I can do stuff and it seems like for a lot of people maybe listening this might be like very like um I don't know normal stuff they said okay the guy's talking just went to London they said but for me it was a very big deal and it's also what 15 years ago when travel wasn't as cheap and easy to do so I think actually a lot of people probably couldn't relate to it because it would be quite a different thing yeah it was a different thing but was people were still doing it but for me it was like something impossible out of reach at least was you know sometimes we close ourself right was just the because in the context where I grow up it's like you you die where you are born right so that's that's all I could see at the time so that's why now I I see I just went to London I see something as very simplistic now but at the time for me was the big deal like wow I made it something that I considered it was like so something so out of reach I made it and that's the real the reason why I'm saying that is because the realization that okay so things that I think are unreachable are not really unreachable they might be difficult from the context that you are now but they're not they are not really unreachable so I can do pretty much everything I want if I put the work in and if I say I going to do this and that's a big that was the big mindset shift for for for me because Australia was like the unreachable dream. Getting to Australia, living to Australia, becoming Australian citizen was the unreachable dream. Making my own business was the unreachable. Like all all the things that then I ended up doing were the unreachable dreams. But the mindset has changed. Mhm. Um in London I did um find a job in uh still in hospitality concarch and I have a good memories about it. I was very happy because was this I had the normal finally I had the normal job that allowed me to just go out of the restaurant and buy a I don't know a sandwich right just eating out. For me, those were the novelties, right? Mhm. And um and then there some people inquiring about the the the book.

[00:29:42]Some people that bought the book said, "Oh, when is the next one?"

[00:29:48]Really? Um okay. If I if I can make a little more money, I'll write something else. Do do you have the book to date? Is there a link we can we can put in the description for anyone that's interested in poetry, or is that just hidden away in a drawer? It is still on Amazon, but it's not something I'm very proud of.

[00:30:06]Okay. Because it's not I'm actually very proud of the action.

[00:30:11]Some of the poetries I read them now and I say, "Wow, those are good. I actually like the poetries that are there." Yeah.

[00:30:17]Sometimes my mom used to publish them on Facebook and I thought they were just some other rather poetry because I I even forgot the po. I wrote it and and then I found out what was my poetries and so I really like the poetry as well.

[00:30:31]is I just don't see myself riding those sort of things now. I see. Yeah. It's not who you are. Yeah. Okay. It's uh probably was who I was before, but no, now it's too too um too sweet to to just just like if you get like four spoons of sugar at once. Um but it is on uh it is on Amazon still at present.

[00:30:54]Um yeah, but I people wanted me to write another book and but I was in London so I couldn't do it through the publisher and that's what I started getting into marketing because I said okay if I write this second book and I'm not through the through the publisher I need to self-promote it. That's what I learned um how to make a website, how to um how to uh um social media marketing. Um, so I've dived I love studying things like uh anything that is non-fiction. Um, but that's the book. That's why I said I'm not proud of what I wrote even though they're nice poetries, but the I'm proud of the ashion of the journey of the book. Uh, because that did led me into marketing. Uh, and eventually from from that I started getting I got a first job in marketing in Prague. Was it more of an internship? Okay. And then I've got a social media manager role in uh Italy.

[00:31:54]So, and was that remote at the time or you moved to those places? I'm I went in Prague for I think 3 months. No, not so was a more of an internship. Mhm. Still hotel, still hospitality, but social media um social media manager. At the time there were like four square was the this social media where you check in and obviously Facebook was still there. From there I moved to back to Italy. Mhm.

[00:32:20]Still in a hotel doing social media management. Mhm. And then um I decided to go in um when I came back to Italy, I really didn't like the work. I I loved I came back to Italy to a person that I met through the uh entertainment years which I still in contact with that I've got like a great relationship. I think was one of my first mentors. You can have mentors where you actively have a mentor, mentors where you just notice things that they do. Like one of the first people that I really admired business-wise and I took a lot of inspiration from. But the context of Italy I uh I didn't fit in there um anymore. So I wanted to come back to to leave Italy and instead of coming back to London was to give context was uni Milan then again the resort London Prague Italy. Mhm. And then instead of coming back to London again and starting all over again because I left my job and right in London I said you know what I really want to go to Australia. M I have some money um saved because meanwhile I've done two years of just normal jobs but you can save a little bit of money.

[00:33:37]Um I want to go to Australia. Yeah. I want to do three months there and then yes we come back to London. I was with my ex partner at the time and then we come back to London but at least I want to see Australia.

[00:33:49]That's the opportunity right and that's where I went to to Australia. And when I came to Australia I knew I wanted to be in in marketing. So I I always um started myself started looking for marketing roles in Australia and um one of those marketing roles was a was a lady that had a web design agency. Mhm.

[00:34:12]And she told me that she could not hire me. She was looking for contractors.

[00:34:17]Right. And that was I think my first official, you know, being in business, right? So I was still working at the time. I was doing freelancing at the at the time, right? But that's what I could see. Oh, wow. Just, you know, the the hours of work for the uh money rewards was versus the normal job. Mhm. I could see the this disproportion, right?

[00:34:41]Right. And I said, okay, this this could be plus was online. I said, this could be interesting. I really want to pursue this. And I'm talking about 13 years ago, right? Yeah. And in Italy, I did some freelancing as well. So by the time I was in Australia, I did probably three years and a half of um of experience um and that's where I started my um my journey uh as a real inter I mean more of a like um having my own business.

[00:35:13]Okay. Um wasn't easy again. I didn't have any connections. And so how how did you find like the first clients? Because obviously when you're in Australia, you said you kind of found that and most people if they're starting out, they're thinking, "Oh, I'd love to, you know, do contract work for a web agency." But then the the first question is, "Okay, what skills do you have? How why should I hire you?" How did you collect that freelance experience? Like what advice would you give to others maybe listening entrepreneurs looking to be um to like start their kind of journey? Is there any like source? There was no Fiverr back then, I'm guessing, or Upwork. Uh, there was no Fiverr yet. There was no Upwork. Was called Elance at the No, it was no Elance. Uh, odesk was called, but um, it wasn't a thing yet. So, okay. So, I tell you what I did and I tell you maybe what I would suggest people would do now. Mh. Because what I did is not necessarily the things that I would do right now because times have changed. Um so what I did at the time I was looking for a job reality in marketing. I said I want to get out of these hospitality uh things. I want to do I liked doing social media in Italy and in Prague that's what I want to do. Mhm. Uh but in Australia you have visas and um I had working on a visa which allow you to work for an employer for 6 months and then you need to find another employer.

[00:36:38]So which meant if you don't do hospitality you're like unemployable, right? because it's uh 6 months sometimes is only the training when you when you work for a for a private company. So, but I really was um determined. So, after like a week in Australia and a month prior to go to Australia of sending resumes curriculum va in Europe they call resume there. Um I said okay I just this is not working let me change method. Um so I just started calling Google all the agencies like uh web design agency or marketing agency Sydney as I was in Sydney at the time calling everyone cold calling eventually on the sixth page of of Google. I've called these um uh agency and there were two owners listened into it. One owner I called and I said oh I do social media marketing. Uh you're looking for someone. She hang up. Right. Okay. rude but okay. Uh and then I called the second owner. Yeah. Of the same company and um and she said, "Oh, interesting."

[00:37:47]I said, "No, do you do SEO as well?"

[00:37:50]Which I was not doing at the time. I knew what it was, but I wasn't I wasn't skilled in SEO at the time. And um and she said um and I said, "Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course, of course. Yeah, it's my thing." Um I said, "Okay, we should talk." And that's that's the lady that I told you that hired me as a contractor.

[00:38:09]Okay. So that's where it start from me.

[00:38:11]So she was splitting up the partnership with that agency. She was starting her own web design. Okay. Agency and she was looking for an SEO contractor because she was doing web design. She needed an SEO contractor. I for a week I've been pretty much immersed in studying SEO.

[00:38:31]Yeah. until I did a an interview with her prior to start the collaboration and she said, "Oh, you I can really tell your experience and you really know your thing." Yeah. Yeah, I do. Um and um and so she started giving giving me work right from the clients. So that was my first kind of um and I didn't have experience at the time but I'm very like I'm I stud when I say for a week I studied every day night and day I really mean I studied every day night and day right like 13 14 hours a day I'm not exaggerating 13 14 hours a day without break so I was very resilient with with those things so it's um you know if you count the hours if you think oh someone goes to I don't know to study I don't know a diploma about SEO they do six hours a week but I did the hours of the diploma but condensed so that's that's where the where it started and um and then from there it just built up referrals um then I've got um another person coming in and help me then I I had the dream the the mistake at the time the thinking that I can just hire someone and this someone would do the work for me. Couldn't be further from the truth. I mean, you're in business too, you know, as pro that's what that's where another journey begins, right? From um procedures, SOP, hiring, stimulating people in in a way like how do I make people really stick with me and really have passion for for the work? How can I make my service a better service, you know, and all other journey that lasted years because obviously then I want to be the best at what I do. Mhm. And so the 10 years have been a very big evolvement, right? Um but coming back to your question, what I would suggest people that want to start um now there are so many opportunities.

[00:40:29]Right. So um if someone want to start working online I think that's the question right someone yeah if someone wants to start working online right now so I really believe that in future it's already happening now but there's not going to be employees anymore I think everyone will be a contractor and just going to be collaborations to to each other. Mhm. I don't think it really makes sense having employees um anymore in the long term. Obviously, it does make sense, but in g I'm generalizing right for very small businesses. Um but just number one start with some pick some take action. A lot of time people wait thing to be fair perfect before to to start. And what I mean I think when you work with someone else and you're providing a service things have to be perfect or close you know you you can't you can't improvise it because it's then it becomes not fraud but it become like it's once you start offering your service make sure that you're good at it. Yeah. Right. But into to get into that journey start something. Don't take 12 months to build a website and just start something. Pick what you want to do. So now people have the advantage that every day you got something new. So for example with AI automation. Yeah. It wasn't anything until a year and a half ago. So you're not competing with seniors that have 15 years of experience. You are if you start now you got just one less years of experience than other people. Mhm. So pick something and then make an offer. So it's like okay pick a niche. So if you want to start very simple pick a niche make an offer create an offer make the offer very um um simple so that people will feel foolish for you to say no yeah to their offer.

[00:42:36]And that's the that's the basic of the business right having an offer and a service and an offer. And then obviously the last the other part it's uh getting clients have a payment processor. I love Stripe. There is go cardless. Don't do PayPal just for 5% fee. It just doesn't make sense. But um take a way to receive uh receive money and then go looking for clients. I wouldn't go on marketplaces, Fiverr, uh Upwork. I wouldn't go this way neither for look for clients or for or to look for collaborators.

[00:43:13]It's it's just um I don't know in my experience just uh you just bid with other 30 people right it's not a sustainable way of um of doing um you go ways uh go to networking events I think at first before doing it just get to know people physically so I will go networking events a lot if you don't want to do that um do call calling so I think that the rules of um marketing in general are still the same. They don't change the behavior um of a sales that don't change. Uh what changes the circumstances and the saturation points of certain things.

[00:43:56]Give you an example.

[00:43:58]Um many uh years ago everyone was doing doortodoor like a lot of people were doing doortodoor and call calling and now um and if you were doing email marketing which is still great right now but if you were doing email marketing you were it was not saturated yet now it's kind of the other way around like everyone is doing email and everything offline not many people doing calling as much as before so I will do calling to be honest it develops the um I will call I will choose what's what's my niche. Yeah.

[00:44:32]Create an irresistible offer and call people by call calling. That's that's the method. Uh start with something small. Start with local businesses and uh because there is less uh is is faster to close a client with local businesses. Uh that is not you know don't go with the big brands. Mhm.

[00:44:52]Right. The beginning uh maybe offer your service for free um just to build a portfolio. Yeah, build a portfolio. Um, actually I would recommend that. Start build build your um the first few clients, the first three, four, do it for free. Build the portfolio. You at the very least you're going to have recommendations from from other people and then fi find um yeah find clients call calling uh email outreach. I love email outreach. Right now you can go very very deep with email outreach and there's also a skill that you can develop to offer as a service.

[00:45:28]So you can go to tool for example instantly for example which is this outreach software you create you need to see regulations as well because in some countries it's not um legal to just blast people off with with many emails but there are tools like instantly there are many out there there is there are email outreach uh softwares right so they can check these things for you they just offered the tool to send like 10,000 email a day potentially Actually there is a way to do it. Uh you you create a lot of you buy a lot of domains. Mhm.

[00:46:06]You don't do it with your domain. Uh because if your domain get flagged as spam by the email by the email software.

[00:46:15]Yeah. Comp then your operations are ruined. Even if you send an email to a friend that will go to spam. So you don't do with your domain. So you buy new domains that are similar. So for example if it's your domain is table.com you buy table2.com table3.com table5.com you buy 10 of them for each one of them you create three four emails so all of a sudden you got 10 domains and 20 email addresses each email address sends 50 mail a day and outreach not too many because otherwise it's spam for that domain result is you can send automatically in in a few clicks 10,000 emails a day. Mhm. If 1% is 0.5% replies and out of those who replies, 2% um get an appointment and out out of 2% get an appointment, 50% becomes a client.

[00:47:09]Yeah. You already have your first clients. Mhm. You need to do it properly. Um obviously, so I think it's spam if you just spam people. But if you add personalization, which now we have the tools uh to do it, uh you can add what's called enrichments. There are tools like clay that really allows you to create scale email outreach scale. So I'm talking about like potentially contacting 10,000 people a day with 10,000 highly personalized email that says, "Hey Liam, I saw your post, your LinkedIn post today about um how coffee caffeine is is good for you. I think it's great and by the way I checked neuron you can go very details and so all of a sudden you got 10,000 emails personalized that's a way if you want to start the agency and if you want to really scale without reach and you don't have too much founds or if you have no founds at all right go on LinkedIn connect with people get some value first and again do reach okay so there are ways now there is many ways out reach marketing SEO I love do love SEO the scenario SEO is changing ing the rules are still the same. The behavior is changing. People use LLMs more like charge PT and others. Okay. But the rules of SEO still apply. Mhm. Now, Google is more the back end um for and and charge PT for example is the front end, right? So SEO is still a good powerful way to uh is not dead as many people believes. Yeah. Um yeah. So there are there are ways start go out there and a lot of the times you're going to learn along the way. Uh just don't rip people off. Yeah. Like there are a lot of people that they just don't say yes on things that you can't you you can't. Okay. So when when you told this this lady that you could do SEO, you knew that within a week you were going to be able to deliver on it at least. Um rather than saying, "Hey, you know, I have no experience doing SEO." And sometimes you have to take the risk and put yourself out there. Yeah.

[00:49:14]Yeah. I had at the time I had no choice.

[00:49:16]I really had no choice. I needed the money to pay rent in Australia and the other um side of the world. Yeah. Uh but yeah, when I was have been given a client, I was ready for the service.

[00:49:30]Yes. I was a more a junior person. Yeah.

[00:49:33]But I was ready for the service. So I knew the thing that I was offering because she told me make me the offer that we need to, you know, give to those people. And the offer I made was based on the skill that I did learn, right? So I had to do it a little bit in a rush.

[00:49:48]But when I got the clients that I got, I knew what I was doing. A lot of time people just say yes and they have no clue what they were doing. And you charge them probably fairly because it was like a new skill rather than like the higher agencies that might charge a premium. Yeah. I was charging probably I don't know 30 times less than than another agency. You know, it was proportion was proportionate. And so she was your first client in Australia. Yes.

[00:50:13]How did that evolve into online monkeys and what it is today? Because now you run a full scale um digital agency.

[00:50:21]Yeah. Yeah. So that's been evolving over the years. So um it's it's been a very gradual process.

[00:50:30]Uh initially was just very incentive to me. Uh I was the main person offering the service. Mh. And over time I've realized I needed help. So I started uh hiring people, made a lot of mistakes um along the way. The real shift happens when I've been looking for shortcuts for for a for a while, right?

[00:50:56]Um, and when I when I say shortcuts was like, um, oh, maybe let me find that one agency and give me 10 clients or let me find um, let me let me do this instead of that. But when I said, okay, I just going to focus and I could do that at the time because I did save some money.

[00:51:16]I said now I'm just going to focus on the service that I offer and really perfectioning that service and focusing on hiring and making uh good SOP that are not too boring, not too you know specific enough but but still compressed enough that people actually read them, right? And um that was when the shift uh started happening. good people hiring very good people really focusing that that's my role my role is focusing on the service adapting as time change for example big emphasis it's on the change of the SEO landscape we call it GEO now okay uh what does go stand for um generative optimization ah okay um and you work on uh uh not just on Google.

[00:52:13]Mhm. Work on Google on on um obviously Google searches but also a step a layer on top. Okay. Uh you want to be appearing on CHP mentions on perplexity on cloud AI. The different scenario versus even up to three years ago when 85% of people would just use Google.

[00:52:33]Mhm. Now I think it's a bit more spread.

[00:52:37]uh and this spread will just uh increase like the Google dominance will go down and down and down in terms of the front but in terms of the front end right right but Google still would be one of the on the of the main uh players in the game but just understanding the the behavior I think the behavior change the main SEO rules I mean SEO changes every six months because there's always an algorithm change okay But I see as a layer on top. You apply the SEO rules plus another another layer on top. Okay.

[00:53:13]Uh to appear on the on the on the search results. Uh we're still learning is is fairly new. Uh but we know we need need to adapt, right? And that's the opportunity. A lot of people would not adapt. They would still do the SEO the old way. Okay. They will still just report on Google. Yeah. And uh and those will be the one left behind. That's the opportunity. I'm actually quite excited for it. is just, you know, a little bit less um competitors um around um and that's a good opportunity understanding also the behavior traffic I think organic traffic will go way down for any business organic traffic. Mhm. But the quality of the organic traffic is would be way higher. Okay. in a world where everyone consultant LLM a charge is before getting to your website because now what the LLM does and Google will launch this I think they launched like AI mode which is pretty much like chipt um before getting to your website people have done research they probably have had the conversation with the large language model by the time they get to your website it's like the large language model has highly qualified the traffic for you. Um, so for example, if before you had 10,000 visitors a month and only 1% will convert, now you probably going to have 5,000, but maybe 5% will convert. Okay. So, it it it balances out. And so, with the agency now, you're taking a huge approach to learning AI, adapting to that.

[00:54:48]How does this sound to you talking about today's problems? when you were, you know, back in Naples going through everything, you did did you think this is the unreachable goal? Are you kind of happy with where you are? What's the kind of mission now? And you touched on it at the start, but how how is does this come full circle? Yeah. So, this came full circle.

[00:55:09]So, I'm I'm very happy how things are going now. I've also have a little bit of a curse. I think that's the entrepreneur curse where ambition always ask you what's the next thing, what's the next things and I say sometimes it's a curse because right you always want more. It's never enough.

[00:55:30]Yeah. Yeah. You know sometimes I wish I can sit to enjoy this a little bit longer. So I'm I'm working on it sometimes. Okay, I'm here and I need to be here and the next step are always higher. Mhm. That's why I say it's a curse, but it's also a good thing because that's what pushes you. As before, what I thought was as long as I earn enough to live and work remotely, I'm fine. I'm done. Right. But but it's not. I just want um want more.

[00:55:58]Eventually, I want to get to a stage to make a difference for not only my family, but also for for other people.

[00:56:04]We're doing it with the business and indirectly we're doing it, but also actively.

[00:56:10]Um yeah so um it's funny how uh I left health right we started this saying that I drop out of um university and I left health and then started a new journey that led me into having my own business and then eventually became more than one business we'll talk about the clinic after um but um I was getting so eventually all uh overwork caught up with me in terms of on of my health. So I started to having um you mean I had sleep apneoa uh pretty much no iron um ulcers and a number of of things that I was very very unhappy with with my health and um and I started to go to to doctors and way they couldn't help me anyway the one like I I wasn't getting I felt I wasn't getting the help that I really needed I was getting pills, you know, just but um I wasn't getting any better, right?

[00:57:20]And uh that's when I decided to take health in in my own hands and I became very passionate again. I said, "Oh, wait a second. I know how to read scientific papers." Um let me see if there is anything out there on PM for example that can help me to um solve what I'm having now. I won't give you the long list that that that I had the time, but I just went I found a couple of things and um they worked for me. It's always risky because I also found experimented on things that ended up making my situation worse, you know, with the and I think that needs to be said because sometimes we said, "Oh, the medical system is corrupt and is bad." I think the Westminis is not the best.

[00:58:08]There's a lot of improvements to do but also we need to be conscious to the fact that when you taking health into your own hand is a big responsibility right and you can do some mistakes. I've done big mistakes that made me worse than before before making better. So no I feel very confident and like I've learned a lot but along the way I made I made mistakes. I tried supplement and I did overdose without knowing it. You know things we need to be careful. I say that because a lot of time people just talk as of oh you take health into your own hands and everything is going to be fine. No, it's still a big responsibility, right? But that led me to health again. Eventually, I started reaching out to my old friends about technology. We kind of started a project in biotechnology with the uni. Um I started to become very like that very passionate again about health and about technology and uh that led me to uh listen to a lot of podcasts about health and I said oh I really want to start my own podcast because I saw those people as you know like gods right and I tried to reach out to them but nobody really just got back to me and I said I got to do a podcast I said so I can worst case scenario I just got a free consult right so that was there are still questions that I want to ask to certain specific people. Um, and so I started the the podcast with the podcast gave me enough um exposure and um I I guess connection to um other companies that were still in the in the health space. Yeah. And that's when I got the click. I said, "Okay, online."

[00:59:47]So Lank is still now we work with fintech, we work with crypto companies.

[00:59:51]We we're not uh specifically um marketing agency for health companies, but because of the podcast and and um I think the the passion that I have I and and I think that what set us apart uh as a marketing agency for health sometimes there are certain things that are very specific that you need to know the subject in order in order to get the best result. Okay. So some of the biggest best case studies are in the health niche. I think that's what set us apart and and so a lot of the clients that we have right now are in health.

[01:00:30]Right. Right. And uh so I'm glad they kind of the times at uni were not wasted. It kind of still came out uh Andy right to me. And would you say I introduced you as like a kind of biohacker? Would you be a self-proclaimed biohacker? because when we met for the first time it was actually over in London at biohacking event. Yeah. Okay. So I think yes I I don't like anymore the term bioac like I think that over the years right I think when there is something new there is always like the novelty and the novelty a lot of time there are good intentions and then as things become mainstream a lot of the scammers kind of cut up and and then it becomes I got the feeling now there's more of a fashion statement for a lot of people.

[01:01:23]Mhm. kind of looking for a new word for it that is by hacker because a lot of people thinks okay ring I'm a by right uh and I don't you know I don't like that that part but um so I'll say right now I'm a before yes biohacker full on now I think health enthusiasts okay u but yeah absolutely um health is still now even more than before is when my mom passed away So I was very into her like to the point that was everything had to be perfect. When my mom and you know when when you start seeing the benefits of something then you become a little bit too accustomed um to it and you don't really see the the results too much. Not sure how to explain it. Like it's u you do things that work. Yeah. You do things that work for a long time and then when you go from sick to health to normal to healthy to super healthy the super healthy become your new standard right that's me your new normal and then you think that all the things that you were doing I started questioning oh maybe they're not do they don't have so much of an impact so my mom passed away and um that really you know was a bit of a crit because I was living in Australia.

[01:02:45]My mom was undergoing chemo. She was in Italy. I was between Australia, Europe, Australia, Europe, running the business, starting the new business. COVID in between um the podcast. So, I did cut off a little bit. I started cutting corners um including certain health rituals that I was following. Mh. And then I you remember that scale from an elephant. So I went from super healthy to healthy to normal to sick again.

[01:03:18]Okay. Right. And uh I said okay. So those stuff were working. So I'm more conscious now that those things are important.

[01:03:28]Um and um with good health your your mind is a bit more clear what you what or you um your mind works better like um um your mood is better as well. I think it's a duty that we have to be um strong enough you know to just carry stuff and move move around is a duty to ourself when we're going to get older. Yeah. And uh so now my health consciousness is even stronger than before, right? Um but with a good compromise, I still enjoy my life. Uh I eat my pizza. Uh which for many years I didn't do. Now I do it.

[01:04:12]It's not the best thing. Uh not the healthiest thing even though the way you prepared you can minimize it. Right. But yeah, now you happy. Yeah. Correct. So it's it's about finding compromise. But I I do know now that a lot of like the red light um the the red light the vagus nerves a lot of these things really work and really make a difference. Mhm. And I've known because I went from bad to very good to very bad again when I stopped. Yeah. And the other thing is I think that many people forget I think that's important to mention when it comes to health.

[01:04:50]um to get healthy again or from a bad place to a good place and vice versa. Yeah. A lot of time we think that that will come pretty soon overnight or not overnight but pretty soon couple weeks couple of weeks. What I think is the case instead at least for um is that takes months to go from good to bad and bad to good. So you remember I told you from super healthy to bad again you know that second bad journey. It wasn't overnight like you know you kind of create that loop that is fine to to get into the old bed routines. Okay I'm not sleeping eight hours again. I'm I'm sleeping five six hours. I'm still fine. Mhm. Uh I'm eating a little bit more sugar than before. I'm still fine. So that's that's was the loop for me because it wasn't so immediate. Mhm. Something's very immediate, don't get me wrong, but because it wasn't so immediate, that's the trap, right? That gets you down down and then you only realize it once you already hit that one because your body catches up on you probably catches up and vice versa when you when you are in a bad place and you want to improve your health. Yeah. You need to be very resilient because it's not going to be some things you're going to see them in the short term, but a lot of the things is going to take right quite a while.

[01:06:11]So, I think it's important to to realize this. I think it took me a good eight months before getting in a place that I I'm I'm happy again to to to my health.

[01:06:23]Um Yeah. And so you've set up this agency, you have your business now.

[01:06:29]You're looking at developing other businesses. You had your podcast, but you paused it for a while to just kind of refocus, get to your healthy state.

[01:06:37]Clearly, you're of the belief that entrepreneurs can operate without jeopardizing their health. Yeah. What's your kind of stance on this debate? Do you think you need to work, you know, 15 16 hours a day or do you think, hey, eight hours, if you do really productive and you're in like the best state, it's going to be more effective?

[01:06:56]Yeah. Is it be It's a good question. Um, I still work a lot a lot. Um, probably I work 12 hours a day now. So, way less than before. Mhm. Uh, but the difference is that I got drive now. So I don't see I want to do it. I'm you know I've got enthusiasm in uh perfectioning the service with the agency in perfectioning the uh making an impact with the psychology clinic the teller health clinic helping my family.

[01:07:30]So um so I do want to do it but I don't have to do it so much right if I if I didn't want to I want to do it because I want to improve. I want to go. It's it's my choice. It's not an absolute need. It is possible. Uh there are no negotiable.

[01:07:49]Um now the going to gym is a non-negotiable. Um u time quality time with family is a non-negotiable. I schedule the activity that's has to be done. Okay. Uh and then of course sometimes there are emergencies but and you need to uh you know jump in when there is an emergency and the more you grow I think the more things can happen but those are emergencies shouldn't shouldn't be the norm. Right.

[01:08:19]Right. So yes it it is totally possible but I also think to work to to if you if you have big big goals you still need to put the work in. Mhm. There is no maybe you know there obviously there are people that um can do way in in a more effective way. If you really want to do the way I see it now I said okay I've got this amount of hours during during the week and I know I want to achieve certain goals. Mh. Yes I can do it in six I can do it in four. Uh but I think my mind goes I got all these other six hours I can learn and a lot of the time I say work a lot of times is studying right so I can learn how to build a super agents that book my flight for me and find for the best places in Changu for a restaurant and u um I don't know for example I can build with uh make.com on on other automation tools like super agents that get the best AI information from from the web and create a post on LinkedIn, create a post on Facebook, create a post on Instagram, goes out there and publish. You know, there are this is just a couple of example. Yeah.

[01:09:32]Uh or I could work on the new procedures. So I I can work Yeah, it is possible but then it really depends what what you want to to do. Okay. Uh I want to grow all the businesses and Yeah. So with health being the number one priority basically you are in top of mind to be able to learn and then use your time efficiently using AI different applications to apply that to nearly buy back your time. So it's a constant cycle but you you really feel that health is the the cornerstone for for doing all that. You mentioned um big goals. Yeah.

[01:10:07]What is big goal? Um do you have the one year the 10 year? What does it typically look like? Would are you happy now or is it I'm going to be happy when I do X?

[01:10:18]Good question. No, I think after my mom passed away, my um I've changed a lot. So, I'm happy I'm happy now. Um but I still got drive to to do more. But I'm very grateful to to what I have because I've been in pretty bad places sometimes financially, sometimes mentally. when my mom passed away was a I did what's the word? Uh hold grief. Is that what you say? When Yeah, I did hold grief for a long long time. And so if I compare now to those moments, I said, "Oh, I've got it. Great." Like I just right. Uh so I'm very very happy where I am now, but of course I want to grow and do more things. So my missions are so first of all is always I feel um I really want to help others. So this year I I I really feel joy when I help my family.

[01:11:16]Mhm. I feel joy if it really fulfilled me and I'm so happy about that because I thought was just something that I had to do like it really fulfilled me. So I really now find fulfillment when I when I help my close relatives, right?

[01:11:31]And um but I'm also under the uh you know belief is you know like in an airplane they told you put the oxygen mask first to yourself. Yeah. First I need to make sure that I'm fine and strong like mentally and physically in order to do that. Yeah. So number one mission is making sure that I'm always in that state. So always keep working on myself, keep working on my health, uh finding new things that um uh I can um uh that can help my health health even better. So I still study about my health because I I need to be strong mentally and physically in order to keep up with the business and and everything. That's number one. Yeah. Um number two, I want to retire my dad. Mhm. and um he worked he's a track driver still works so all his life he's been spending in the truck and work so that's I think the next step for me I just want to comfortably retire my dad and uh also want to so and this goes into category on myself first right so I retire my dad I spend more time with him he can travel he can be in Indonesia with me he can be in Australia with me I'm happier so I'm healthier So, it's a bit probably altruistic but selfish at the same time, right? Uh I want to have I'm I'm a bit worried the direction that the world is going. I'm excited for all the developments in in science especially and but on the other hand I may be worried of how the world is going like uh worse control security cameras everywhere and um so I want to be able to have to be independent the way I live what I mean by independent is like producing my own so I want to have a place that is home then doesn't get overt taxed every every year. So could be taxed tomorrow and so something that is almost permanent. Uh I want to be able to produce my electricity, collect my water. Um and ideally ideally in emergency growing my food and might be a stream but I think that that's one of the goals for me being fully independent. We started this podcast by saying independence for me really makes put me at ease. Um so I want to achieve that. um with uh that's why I'm in Indonesia. We looking at by land building um for property development purposes but also for us and um really want to continue growing uh socially speaking because it's something different than the marketing. So with marketing now my goal that's why I'm putting more emphasis with the health companies and I'm I can be I can afford to be more selective now than before.

[01:14:23]Before I couldn't be as selective but now I can and a lot of time I say not a lot of time but there are times that I say no. I had clients that own business mentorship that they were I believe what I believe they were selling things that should not be deserved to reach out to other people. I said no. Or people that want to sell snake oil. I said no. Uh so I want to use the marketing agency to help as many companies in health. They really are making a difference. So it's my let's say indirect way of helping people and that's still in the short-term category. Okay. Socially speaking, I can really see how people who do the programs are maybe maybe just uh what is socially speaking just for those that don't know. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Good point.

[01:15:10]Good point. I give for grants I sometimes it socially speaking is a company that I did not start. My current partner start she's a speech uh speech pathologist and uh she also has her own uh business called gender voice center that helps people with their voice. She asked people, transgender people um uh feminizing their voice through speech um through speech pathologist and she wanted to start this new company as well. uh I say new but it's been already four years probably con socially speaking where uh we have on board psychologist counselors occupational therapist um and uh speech pathologists as well and the focus it started with the focus of people with social challenges mainly a lot of people we have are people with autism and ADHD but not only okay but the the goal so we started with this program called peace program from UCLA. It's not that we invented it, right? So um but um we we did the the course to be able to provide the the the program through speech pathologist and psychologist consists on a six week online program um for teenagers, young adults and older adults. And uh the the final outcome is is very comprehensive.

[01:16:38]We got everything on the website. He has an app. It's but it consists on an hour and a half a week with a psychologist and a speech pathologist.

[01:16:47]The ultimate goal is making people with social challenges which I didn't know was a need that people have is an epidemic. I found that is an epidemic.

[01:16:57]The outcome is people with social challenges to go out there and be more comfortable to make friends, more comfortable in the dating space, more comfortable in the in the workforce. And I I really when I started this I didn't know if there was a real need for it. Now that I've been in in it for a few years, there is an absolute epidemic and people with so much need of this and when people complete the program um they really um feel changed like their life changed for the better right and um that has become the the moto like the it's so this is where my I think the new phase of entrepreneurship has started happening.

[01:17:45]true socially speaking because for me the first phase was I'll be a successful entrepreneur if I make as much money as I can. Mh. Um I still believe you you need to do that obviously to but um when you also um make your service or or product so good that really you can see that people really benefit and change people it's um that it gives a lot of it gives that drive to do the 12 hours a day without um being annoyed by it. Right. Because you're getting the fulfillment seeing people like just being so much better after it. Yeah. And you said there's a an pandemic or an epidemic in terms of like social skills. What caused that? I have my opinions of it. So I think it's a bit um I I don't know for sure but I certainly believe that um uh the I think the pandemic must co must have played a role like uh in socially speaking I do the marketing I do what I do it's the marketing right so I'm not a a psychologist so I don't have the the the the studies to to say this but I think the fact that for almost two years um uh people could not go to a school you know is such an important develop such an important part of ourself like you know relate with other people for sure and we've been lucky to to be able to do that and some people like for the key years for two years they didn't do it.

[01:19:26]Mhm. Um plus even now like I remember when I was a kid when I was out and playing with my friends I was out and playing with my with my friends. Um now it's the scheduled activity but it's not the norm. I think the vice is certainly influence um I believe there is a a spike in people with autism. Mhm. Um I found that a lot of people like um I have a brother that is autistic. Mhm.

[01:20:01]And um he's doing great now. He's got a lot of friends and and so on. But for him wasn't that um easy, right, to make friends was like was not as obvious. Um so it could be a mix of uh we are too too digit too too digitalized from a very uh young age pandemic could have contributed right um I think I think definitely the the pandemic is an issue I remember when the the pandemic happened and you know you couldn't go out you couldn't even go anywhere I was in Ireland um for a lot of it and there was restrictions where you couldn't even go to the supermarket for a while or like visit uh friends and I remember kind of towards the end of it when you were back going to like cafes and seeing someone that I hadn't seen before in a very long time and I didn't even know should I shake their hand how do I say hello again this is kind of weird and I feel uncomfortable something that was so normal prior to that two years so I can completely relate to anyone struggling with that and I think it's like uh going to the gym or building a muscle you just have to do it by doing it right and you just build up that muscle again and it becomes more natural and normal. That's a that's a good point and I can relate to that as well. I I'm a very I think I consider myself a very social person. I love being around people and so on. I remember when everything opened was the Yeah. You become super conscious of hugging people. I say hi but hugging people. Yeah. So I was so conscious and I think for a while for a while that my behavior changed as well for a person is already very social. Yeah. So maybe with someone that is already a little bit shy. Exactly. Uh could be even even worse. Yeah. Um so yeah that that's been a a contributor. I think there are many variants of why but Mhm. that could be could have been a contributing factor for sure. Okay. So you're helping people in terms of marketing, you're helping companies, especially health brands.

[01:22:06]You're helping people with social skills. You're looking now in Bali um to kind of explore more real estate for biohackers.

[01:22:16]What out of all these things that you're doing, what's and and you said you're you're giving it back. You want to retire your dad. What excites you the most right now? What's getting you out of bed every day?

[01:22:26]Um to be honest the the f so now I' I consider myself so I I like um I really like getting into businesses. Mhm. Or starting new businesses go through you know head on through the challenges and make them better make them more efficient. I really I I love the learning curve that I'm going through. Yeah. um of starting or taking on existing businesses and making them better. Mhm. More efficient, better services. That that that will really give me enthusiasm. Okay. Right now the the business per se. Mhm. And obviously uh inside each business you got you know your subcategory or your different motivation but the business per se.

[01:23:19]Yeah. It's a drive. I really love it. So it's just the the challenge and the building on it over time. Yeah. What what have you found if you were to give Ronaldo back in Naples advice today?

[01:23:31]What would you say to him? Oh, uh I wish I had a couple of hours, but I think the the first worry worry less. Uhhuh. And uh yeah, because I do, you know, a lot of time I always a lot of time I always think for for the worst like a lot of worries. So going to run out of money, what I'm going to do when I'm older. Mh.

[01:23:52]I think it's uh it's good growing up knowing everything is going to be all right. Right. So that's a little bit more the I guess the woowoo things that a lot of people would say. Um but also I think the probably I will try to give some key key lessons. Mhm. I'm very visual sometimes. So I trying to think okay if I could talk with Renato young I would not would not want young Renato to know I'm old Renato. Right. So I will try kind of to to pass the message in a way that my message could help him through life without knowing what to expect. Right? So the the first learning would be learning would be the mindset very powerful like it's you limit yourself like it's self-limiting beliefs are a thing you can do anything. Um sometimes you're just going to work harder. You know, some people that start with a little bit more uh of a head start than than other people. It is what it is. Uh but that shouldn't be an excuse not to have certain goals or or to consider certain goals reachable. So changing the mindset saying that everything is reachable. Right. Right.

[01:25:07]So if someone else can do it, why not you? Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And that I think that was the inspiration for me for a lot of u uh a lot of the time even now at present sometimes I see people that are highly successful way more successful than I am and obviously I don't know them personally but my click or my main motivators is like I can do it if you can do it or she can do it I I can do it like this person is nothing more than I than I have uh obviously Now they do better. Yeah. So that's still now is a main motivators especially when people that I dislike are more successful than me in in business because success is a very vague terminology. Right. Right.

[01:25:54]That's a big motivator. Like if I see someone that I don't respect too much doing very well in business, then now if this person can do it, I definitely can do it as well. Right. Yeah. Is there anyone that you look up to right now?

[01:26:07]Because back back in Italy, um there was that one guy that ran the business that you thought was a bit of a mentor, but now is there any person that you kind of like follow or aspire to be like um either lifestylewise or replicate kind of what they own?

[01:26:24]Uh you know, I never asked myself that question, so I don't have an immediate answer. Uh, I think I I think would be a mix a mix of uh of people trying to get the best what I think is the best out of uh different people. Mhm. Uh it could be and I really mean that like it could be the way of um prioritizing people closest to you like my mom was doing. So I really look up to that. Um I really look up to entrepreneurs that are really entrepreneurs that are really that their soul scope is like making business better and that um the time is not the the currency. Uh but no I wouldn't say I have one person in in uh in particular right now because if I had to think about it right if I had one person it would come straight straight to mind.

[01:27:20]Yeah. But I do read a lot. I think books are like really the cheat code um and very affordable 2021 because nobody wants to write a book no successful person wants to write a book that it's it's a mediocre book right so people will tend to give a lot of value in books even though a book will cost you $20 so I still get a lot of very king insight on my life there So sometimes a reminder like I need to keep reading because um yeah but I don't have yet one person Mhm. that uh I look up one specific person that I look up to. Um but a lot of times for everything I do one of the motivators is I like to think that everything that I do now it's uh I like to see things as present Renato, future Renato as two different two different people. That really helped me with the discipline because a lot of time when I want to not to follow a certain uh path or not to be as disciplined as I would like to I always think like oh just give a f to better to future Renato right you know future really benefit from it right and um so do the hard thing today to get the reward in the future yeah okay and a lot of time right did it happen to you that a lot of time like you said oh I'm glad I did this you uh a few years after for sure. Uh so now trying to reverse engineer that kind of process, think about what it is and then do it now.

[01:28:59]Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My last question um after you've built these businesses further, you've developed more, you've given back to the people that you want to. How do you want to be remembered by?

[01:29:11]Like when people talk about you in the future, what do you want them kind of saying? Like who are you? Yeah. So I like to I don't think I've achieved that yet but I know that is within me probably I think my main skill is the um create creativity. So I like to get to a point to have enough time to have my creatives uh and when I say creativity uh I mean in uh in innovation to to innovate to create new things. That's what I love people to um to to remember me as a very creative person. This is think outside of um uh the main schemes of people. And maybe the other thing is the res resilience.

[01:30:01]Now that I look back, I think I've been very resilient. I couldn't do it all over again. I quit. I'm too tired to do all over again. So probably resilient as well. someone that has shown that resilience can can can pay can can pay off. Okay.

[01:30:16]Yeah, Ronaldo, been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for everything.

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