Childcare Crisis Threatens Economic Recovery | Experts Explain

[00:00:00]hey everybody its Mollywood thanks for watching make me smart on the youtubes do us a favor hit the subscribe button and then you'll be able to stay up to date on our latest episodes and you will be the first to know when we fire up that livestream cuz we got this now we got it all right drew hit it let's get this show on the road I saw a tweet yesterday Mollywood that said you know the one thing this guy has learned from listening to this podcast though he's learned a lot but the other thing he learned was you and I are never ready for the music to start and I just thought that was very that's really true that's really true and today we had three extra minutes and we're still just goofing I know I know I'm messing around hey everybody I'm Connor is Dollard is Tuesday the big show make me smart me and Molly would check the economy and culture trying to best two to keep up with what is going on and oh my goodness is there a lot going on today we're going to talk about people going back to work but more importantly trying to do it while managing their kids who are not necessarily in school who are not necessarily able able to go to childcare and we're gonna talk about the whole dynamic because it is it is incredibly complicated and oh so real for so many parents we are and we're going to talk about it in the context of because just you know words of the producers I'm gonna bring in a bunch of Education here too because we're also having a conversation right this second everybody I know who has kids about schools whether they're going to reopen how they're going to reopen what that's going to mean whether people can continue to work because fundamentally if you have parents in this country and they're at home with children they're not getting as much work done as they were before and they cannot get as much work done as they were before and we're looking in many cases that parents who will be in that position through the end of the year and we as a country have to get real serious about the fact that there can be no reopening if the kids can't go somewhere safe so that's the plan yeah for today so we're gonna do that we're gonna have that conversation with Valerie Strauss she's a reporter at The Washington Post she's been covering education for a long long time also talking and working in her recent reporting about child care so we hit the doubleheader today we're gonna get both of those with her Valerie's thank you so much for coming on thanks for having me are you as am i and I believe MS Wood is as well as gobsmacked as the rest of us that everybody's talking about going back to work and reopening businesses but there is scant conversation about child care and schools I'm always gobsmacked about the way we talk about schools and child care but yes particularly child care we hear a lot about schools although there are nobody has any answers nobody knows exactly what to do we hear very little about child care and in fact the child care system what we call a system is more fragile than the public education system and is actually experts say in danger of collapse right now which would be an enormous hit on the economy yeah you wrote about this in the post and I wonder first of all what do we even mean when we say America's child care system that's like what is that system is it a federally funded system because I've certainly never you know I mean I know we have some things like Head Start but yeah like give us the overarching view of what that even means in this country right it does it's not really a system as we know systems it is a patchwork of like six hundred and seventy five thousand different programs some most of them are not licensed some of them are multi our programs in with multiple kids some of them are single providers and homes it's a huge business it's about 57 billion to 60 billion just just for direct costs and then when the spillover on goods and services it can be up to 100 billion a year and and there is almost no talk about how to take care of children particularly young children in this country before the pandemic and even now there has been some legislation but it's unclear when it will pass and even the 50 billion dollars for example that the Senate the Democrats put forth in the Senate would only stabilize right now what's happening it wouldn't even begin to fix the problems hmm okay so that's all yeah no no it is look and here so this is a really subjective question and it bounces off your answer the first one which is you're always gobsmacked by the way we talk about it or don't talk about it is there a way that we can reopen this economy fully without solving the school and childcare crisis no I mean that's a it's not even subjective that's objects people yeah who have you know millions of people have kids and they have to have a place a safe place for their kids now they're used to having them in schools and they're used to having them in child care programs although it's very difficult for many parents to find affordable childcare even in the best of times so there is absolutely no way to fully reopen the economy with that without fixing this problem and and there are no answers there are no fixes right now that can do it what we're you know it's been interesting as this conversation has evolved because it's clear that a lot of white working parents are now just starting to discover what poor people in this economy or single moms in this economy or people of color in this economy who are also economically disadvantaged have experienced for ever which is child care is expensive out of reach not always safe like what are the problems you know if we go all the way back to the existing brokenness of the childcare system what are the problems we have to start with okay getting back to your question about about it being a system or not a system like I said it's this individual patchwork and the only real federal response there has been is this subsidy program federal government provides subsidies that are targeted to help a certain number of eligible families to afford childcare unfortunately there are can you hear unfortunately of course we can but don't worry about it okay so unfortunately there are there's a number of problems here what is quality a lot of these a lot of these programs aren't quality and that's something that has experts have been trying to address for a very long time as I said most most of the programs aren't even licensed another problem is that the people who work in childcare are among the least paid of the workers in America they make maybe ten dollars an hour for doing what you know people consider the most important thing which is taking care of kids but somehow we don't think that that's worth paying a lot for and you also have the problem of cost it is really expensive it's even expensive for middle-class families so what lower you know low income families do is it's really really hard there there was a survey done in California which is not a particularly hospitable place for childcare believe it or not a single parent with a median income would spend 60% of their salary on childcare 60% that's how much it can be average you know maybe 1,200 a month 1,300 a month most most families don't have that so what families do is couple things together and families with resources you know can do it can do it better and easier but it's still not easy unless you're very very wealthy it's still not easy for for middle-class families yeah yeah I remember by the way I remember paying sixty percent of my income for child care and getting to public school kindergarten and being like this is amazing how much money would you like at the option well that's you know that's part of what's happening now is that some people are looking at the opening of school as a childcare effort and so they're pushing to reopen schools in some some places I suspect for that reason I mean what would what would have compelled the governor of Florida this week to insist that all the school districts have five day a week learning in school for parents who want it even while Florida is the hottest has the biggest outbreak right now and you know there's looks like there's no stopping it for a while that's not that sounds like child care yes yeah that sounds like from that sounds like a child care issue and an economy issue right right right the front page of the Miami Herald today was governor order schools open and then right down below the fold was governor orders bars and restaurants closed and you're like yeah right I was doing an interview the other day and I asked the person and we were talking about black lives matter and and the protests and all of that and I said do you think this time feels different in that it might actually change some things and she said without even hesitating oh yeah and I'll tell you why it's because white people are out on the streets too and so the corollary question I think with child care in schools is do you think this time might change the conversation about child care and education and if you do is it because white people are now going holy cow this is a really big problem for me I yes and yes I think that's exactly what happens that's how change happens you know people get affected in this oh oh my gosh it can happen to me and and that is what's happening with the black lives matter protests which is kind of a wonderful thing to see that so many people have been been participating and in the fight for racial justice but yes in terms of child care I think there has to be some changes at least there will be changes and the amount of money the federal government gives to these programs that would that would be a start it's certainly it's not all is but it's a start that doesn't fix the problem permanently it doesn't create an actual system in which states would create licensed child care programs in which families could go but it will help what there is now is there can you give us a sense of what the conversation is about financial assistance from the federal government because it feels like it's not a big part of the conversation and this point out that women disproportionately are are facing major setbacks as a result of this I think I saw somewhere I was trying to look it up actually while you were talking that something like 47 percent of working mothers said they would have to drop out of the workforce if school doesn't resume or child care isn't somehow subsidized and yet I am not seeing that as part of our stimulus conversation right how do you look at that as a policymaker and say oh no this is fine we're gonna lose half the workforce and even just say this is fine for the economy you cannot have a recovery even if you don't care about women and equality right you can't have a recovery now the rages absolutely absolutely I mean even before the pandemic you know women were hit harder with with child care issues when Mother's were 40% more likely than fathers to report that that they had to make adjustments to their careers so they could take care of kids I'm not saying it's you know that they should take care of their kids but women get impacted much more and and now really are particularly during the pandemic there were studies done and more than 60 percent of parents found that their child care programs had closed now some of them have opened but many of them have to operate on social distancing rules which means they can't bring back as many students many of them can't open because they operate normally on very thin margins like restaurants do and they're and they're out there gone and we don't know how many what percentage now of the millions of slots that families depend on will be open this fall that will be open in the winter it's like we're seeing 40% of restaurants may never you know are probably never going to reopen well that's one thing but when you're talking about childcare slots that's another thing right okay so look let's talk next steps and how this might and let's admit we're talking very long term let's think about how this might get fixed number one you've already said is more federal dollars what else has to happen there has to be a concentration on quality okay there has to be better licensing efforts there have they have to be they have to be enforced the federal government could decide instead of funding I the fund federal funding goes through two families so the idea would be to actually create a system in which the states have with the help of federal fund and create high quality childcare programs for everybody who needs them that's so thing and then and then you make them very very affordable or you make them free and so you get cost you get quality and you get you get capacity that's those are the three things you really need to do if you were a betting woman Valerie yes Stefan a are you a betting woman and B what do you think are the odds of that happening where or rather let me let me make it less subjective I know you're a reporter where are we with that conversation right now I know the Senate Democrats have have introduced a child an education relief bill is it going anywhere I think it will go somewhere at some point the problem is that there will be some more money even from Republicans on this issue the question is part of the question is when for example it's not just childcare programs that say they need the money right now and it's not coming right now but school systems are there's a number of school systems that say they cannot open safely without much more federal money now and the house has passed that money the Senate not so much and they seem to be in no rush to do it so you have for example a San Diego San Diego Unified School District has announced it's gonna reopen schools for all students for the first half of the year because they're expecting the Congress to come up with the money for them to do it for the second half of the year but if they don't then everybody's gonna have to go home yeah okay so we remain on the high wire Valerie Strauss is the Washington Post reporter covering education and childcare Valerie thanks so much we really appreciate the context thank you very much nice to talk to you bye take good care huge challenge buts so important it's like instrumental it's like it really is like everything actually yeah yeah okay interesting okay yeah yeah we report you decide I don't know we're headed for a break and I mean I we should point out like when we have this conversation to we're not only talking to parents we're talking to all of them people without kids who have to pick up the disproportionately high around load because like I can't work that much and people with young kids at home can't you know or like me with my 13 year old that can in theory do more work by ignoring him than someone with the two-year-old can but that he doesn't win and I mean nobody nobody can kind of operate although I will say my right my kids are getting a lot more screen time now than they used to let me just tell you that yeah absolutely I mean we haven't even we didn't even touch on this with with Valerie but it's the social-emotional development the I mean clearly pediatricians are starting to talk about how school should probably reopen dangers be damned because it is so bad you know the educational outcomes are bad that the emotional development is bad the depression the just you know socialization for children like this is such this is such a huge issue to set back a generation of kids this much with no plan I mean that is the future of our country that is pretty bad it's pretty bad send us your thoughts send yourself send us your thoughts you said clearly this time voice memo email take your pick make me smarter marketplace org we're coming back I've got mine you got yours what do you want to talk about I believe they're somewhat related but you begin please I believe they are I believe they are so I'm will begin with an interview that a guy by the name of Raphael Bostic gave to the Financial Times he is the president and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta he's been on marketplace a couple of times black economist did time the Obama administration has been with the Fed in various stints anyway he gave an interview to the Financial Times and I will say I will preface this by saying I always really enjoy my conversations with him but he said in this interview that the US recovery might be and this is the quote leveling off and all I can think of was how do you think it's only leveling off the virus is spiking all over this country right consumers are not going to go to places where they are going to get sick and conceivably infect others I think leveling off is charitable I think it's really it's it's so obvious to me that we're gonna we're gonna have a a second leg down in this what is gonna be like a wwww shaped recovery right because that's the way it's gonna go it's gonna bounce up and down and up and down I just love him though I do I think he's being a little bit not as plain-spoken as he needs I like that you were like the long preface of all due respect sir you wish I just think I just the moral of the story here is buckle up because I just it's gonna be really bouncy for a long time yeah and it's gonna be it's a long road I mean even in places and you know just to take the focus off of America and our response for just a second even in places that have legitimately leveled off in terms of infections like Australia they're having to re close like they're having to put more shelter in place orders in place because infections keep spiking like there is not you know there's not a situation where the virus itself is gone globally and we in the United States may have even lost control in some places of our like literally our ability to contain it long road long road even if I wanted to spend money there's nowhere for me to go I like you know I drove up to point raised this weekend and with my son to get a bunch of cheese was very exciting and there was like a clothing store that was open and all the clothes were so ugly and I just still wanted to go into Miami and I did and I kept my money on the sidelines they do really interesting and clothing of course has been hit the worst of pretty much any sector of retail down like 90 percent in April or something so yeah totally and it's just and look I mean restaurants I don't want to sound brutal but they're done like restaurants are dying brutal oh my goodness yeah sorry I apologize for sounding brutal but like get real you know yeah get real how are these how are they supposed to stay open at 1/3 capacity right right yeah long road with the growing awareness of the long road in mind and we did predict this we have been saying on this show like that at some point you know Congress was gonna catch the snap and realize that that more stimulus was required and they probably did it now there is a little bit more conversation in fact as of yesterday Monday the 6th Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said that a Samuel second stimulus check an actual financial assistance direct assistance to people could well be part of the next grow norovirus relief bill but that it should be they believe much more targeted and that it would be directed at people who make about $40,000 a year or less well that's hadn't seen that a little bit I hadn't seen that little bit cuz and the reason that resonates with me sorry is that Jay Powell in a press conference a month ago said 40% of I'm pretty sure the status right 40% of people households making $40,000 or less had experienced job loss yeah this was like yeah right so yeah I think that that's that is events where the pain is yeah yep that's exactly where the pain is in fact that exact stat is in miss Forbes article where I saw this quote for a Mitch McConnell close to 40% of Americans earning less than $40,000 annually and look I mean I don't I actually don't think this is a case of I think there's some faux outrage about the deficit for sure but I don't think that this is a case of Congress being particularly stingy this is in fact the the people who sincerely need this the most for food and housing for you know actual shelter there will be questions about you know it will certainly dramatically reduce eligibility but let's not forget that our government sent out something like 1.2 billion dollars over a billion dollars in stimulus checks to people who had died well yeah there's there's like the rule was if you can see why the rule was if you're fought if you filed a tax return in the eligible year you got the money yeah right exactly they were just shoveling money out the door same thing with the paper shoveling money out there right and now and you know now they're gonna try to be a little more targeted I don't think that need means it needs to be slower like great be targeted faster right and included include childcare but it was about was an interesting note and suggested that at least that these conversations we're not in fact starting at zero they're happening right which is something I guess yeah that's something all right and that's it for the news fix it is now your turn to talk hi KY and Molly this is Brent in Detroit this is Rebecca from Baltimore it was great to hear comments on my question about GDP our I wanted to put in my vote I want to discuss a slightly different but maybe related thing we had a conversation last week with Scott Galloway from NYU which I really enjoyed about higher education about some of the just fallacies that those schools are telling each other and us and their students and some of the some of the changes that actually are gonna have to come anyway here is what Philip Vieira had to say about that hi make me smart team I'm a professor at a university in Southern California and I enjoyed the recent discussion around higher education I do agree that a college degree should be available to more people but in speaking with my colleagues there is a lot of skepticism around how technology would enable this it feels like we've been trying to get online education right for many many years now and yet students still struggle in that sort of environment this is particularly difficult for non-traditional students who really do benefit more from face-to-face interaction this opens up the possibility for haves and have-nots thanks for all the good discussion yeah and thanks for the thoughts I I guess the question is is it a question of how technology is going to be able to do that or whether right because if we had really good investment in in education technology like we do in oh I don't know iPhone technology right that'd be something that'd be something yeah I mean I think it's fair to say we don't know what it looks like you know we know that massively open online courses had pretty low success rates because people didn't stay engaged and they dropped out but we also know that that wasn't there wasn't a lot of accountability and people weren't paying $50,000 a year to take those classes and get the degrees from them so we like right now we have you know lower in lower out worse outcomes with online education but I think it is true that we really don't know what could be accomplished with that level of investment but I I agree that the possibility of haves and have-nots have-nots as I mean that already exists but at least you could get a scholarship to go to a school and live on campus and learn it's very hard like we're if we're going to move to an online model in the long term then we're gonna need scholarships that provide Internet access and computers in the same way that it would have gotten a kid physically to a school but I but you know I think Scott's overriding message was haves and have-nots it's like the whole higher education conversation in a nutshell yeah yeah so there's that 2% yeah two weeks ago we played a voice memo from a listener Joe worden Scheck who had found a silver lining and is pandemic experienced by starting a business he had dreamed about for years but did not have time to focus on until now and so we're doing that again today more silver linings here's a listener Katie Sullivan hi Kai and Molly you were talking recently about silver linings for startups during kovat I'm a Vermont sheep farmer with a new sideline buying New England wool employing local Mills to spin it into yarn and wholesaling that yarn to local yarn shops tiny as it is my little business touches the huge economic themes of our time local agriculture onshore manufacture and new alternatives to in-person big-box shopping I'm counting on people staying home and itting this summer instead of vacationing and gathering looking at Australian wool prices lately I'm reasonably confident that supply and transport disruptions will trickle through the globalized world of textiles to give my hyperlocal effort a boost thanks for the pod my sheep and I listen to it together sometimes I'm sorry I freaking love that might be my favorite listener letter ever every new make her a regular you know how you have that awesome farmer lady now can you also include summer what a good idea I mean seriously write this down right Haiti Sullivan yes like monthly I love this also I think we should do an episode on onshore manufacturing I think that is a super interesting like we've talked on we've talked about what do you think listeners we have talked about sort of how to tackle the idea of globalization as a driver of so many of the politics that we've seen so many of the economic disruptions of the last 50 years or so and I feel like this question of onshore versus offshore is is really significant I even I think I saw even a story today about yeah Joe Biden put out a plan based around bolstering US supply chain capabilities which is like sign of the times if I ever heard one yep for sure that's awesome I see you Katie I'm totally sitting home knitting in the summer [Laughter] alright we we do not have a make me smart question today or an answer rather so please send them marketplace make me smart at marketplace org but a little birdie told me that guy might have an answer well so there's there's something that's been bugging me lately actually there are many things that have been bugging me lately but but when we when we realize is we're going over our go over the rundown this morning that we didn't really have that make me smart answer that we want to use I got to thinking and I got to thinking about and I'm sure you remember this the couple of times that you and I have answered this question mine is always a variation of I always thought but it turned out I was wrong about you've kept your head down and you did your job and you did it right things would work out and and you would fundamentally be rewarded and everything would be good and I think the pandemic corollary to that if you wear your mask and you stay away from people when you're out in public and you do everything right everything's gonna be okay because people understand that and we're gonna kill this disease and I'm wrong about that I mean demonstrable I was wrong about that and that makes me crazy right I mean we're we're we're a frickin mask wash your hands that's it that was my care about other people be responsible people take leadership even if none is being offered you know yep yeah that's what I guy you have what perfectly almost to the word articulated everything that I'm feeling this week okay agree endorse what he said boom and that's it for our show today don't forget to sign up for the make me smart newsletter at marketplace org slash newsletters please send us your answers that question one more time what is something you thought you knew any later found out you were wrong about so many things friends so many things we will be back tomorrow with what do you want to know Wednesday so also email your questions to make me smart a marketplace not org with the subject line questions oh I heard a critter will see you we got critters to make me smart is produced and directed by Sam Anderson our digital producers language that's me I also thanks to our video producer Ben heft coat our video intern Ethan parrots writer producer Erica Phillips today's program was engineered by Drew Jost ed and mixed by Garrett Lang our theme music was composed by Ben holiday and Daniel Ramirez the executive director of on-demand asset RDFS and the senior vice president and general manager is Debra Clark there we go so that's Erica we got Tony down there's like three four more to go and they sound like dude I love it I like Tony's full disclosure - he's like yes I am the ad guy yes right please you're wandering boys well so we oh I feel so relaxed I was so easy boom done