Medical Student Joel Bervell Tackles Health Disparities on TikTok

[00:00:00](audience applauding) - Welcome back, I'm here with Willie Geist, give it up.

[00:00:03](audience cheering) (hands clapping) My next guest is known as the Medical MythBuster.

[00:00:08]He's a fourth-year med student who uses social media to tackle racial and gender misinformation in healthcare, and his videos are making a real difference.

[00:00:16]Doctors actually say they are learning from him.

[00:00:18]That's right, the student is now the teacher.

[00:00:20](Willie chuckling) Even more impressive, several people have told him his videos have actually saved their lives, so, to me, that makes him a rad human.

[00:00:27](bright rock music) (audience applauding) (Kelly chuckling) Every time, it just sounds so after school special.

[00:00:35]It's my favorite thing ever. (guests laughing) Please welcome the Medical MythBuster, Joel, everybody.

[00:00:40](audience cheering) Meet Willie. - Thank you so much for having me today. - Yeah, absolutely.

[00:00:45]- We just met, I'm a fan. - Yes.

[00:00:46]- You started your channel during the pandemic, right?

[00:00:49]- Yeah, so, I started the channel during the pandemic.

[00:00:51]It was a really interesting time to be doing it, because we're learning as medical students, and also, just better understanding about COVID and what's happening. - Yeah.

[00:00:57]Well, a lot of people were nervous.

[00:00:59]They didn't know things, so, that was a time - Exactly.

[00:01:00]- Where people really wanted something like that, too.

[00:01:02]- Exactly, but I kept hearing from professors that Black people were more likely to have COVID, but we never really delved into the reasons why, and that confused me, but I remember one day in class, we were talking about cyanosis, which is when the skin can turn blue.

[00:01:16]And I kept looking at myself, and I said, my skin's not gonna turn blue.

[00:01:19]What's gonna happen to someone that looks like me?

[00:01:21]And I raised my hand, and asked the question, and the professor had a great answer, you know?

[00:01:25]But I kept wondering, if I hadn't asked that question, when's the first time someone would've actually been able to recognize that in a patient?

[00:01:31]- Yeah. - And so, I did what any Gen Z/Millennial, I call myself a Zillennial, would do, (audience chuckling) and I took to TikTok to start making videos about it.

[00:01:38]- Yeah. - And one of my first videos that I made was about this device called a pulse oximeter, and studies have now shown that it can lead to poor outcomes for Black and Brown patients specifically.

[00:01:48]- Yeah, a pulse oximeter.

[00:01:51]You might as well have said flex capacitor.

[00:01:53](everyone laughing) - If you can say pulse oximeter, you're a doctor already, so. (chuckles) - Yeah, pulse oximeter, yes.

[00:01:57]I have one of those.

[00:01:59]What is that?

[00:02:00]How do you explain - Yeah.

[00:02:01]- What that is? - So, I actually have one with me. - Wait, is it the thing that goes on your finger?

[00:02:03]- Good, Kelly, she knew. - Okay, okay, okay.

[00:02:05](audience applauding) - See, what did I say? - I'm okay.

[00:02:07]- Doctor. (laughs) - No, I actually do have one of these at my house.

[00:02:10]- Yes, and so, (audience chuckling) this is a pulse oximeter.

[00:02:12]- [Kelly] I didn't know the name of it.

[00:02:13]- Yeah. - I didn't either.

[00:02:14]- Okay. - For what it's worth, yeah.

[00:02:15]- And a lot of people have them at home, or you can buy them in a drug store.

[00:02:18]They're all over the place.

[00:02:19]Basically, how it works, you put it on your finger.

[00:02:21]- Actually, can we see use... - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:02:22]- You put on your finger like that, and basically, it measures your blood oxygen saturation level, but on darker skin tones, like mine, how it works is there's infrared light that's actually being sent out, and it's being reabsorbed by the red blood cells.

[00:02:35]In darker skin tones, melanin also reabsorbs red light, and so, that can cause it to be increased.

[00:02:41]So, let's say you have a patient come in, they have low oxygen - See, then it's wrong, would the doctor think, oh. - Saturation levels.

[00:02:45]- It can be wrong, and actually be overestimating your oxygen saturation, showing higher levels when you need more care.

[00:02:50]And so, that was one thing that- - Shouldn't your doctor know that?

[00:02:53]Like, people should know that.

[00:02:54]- People should know that, but a lot of people didn't. - Yeah.

[00:02:56]- So, that was the first video I made, and it kind of went viral. - Yes.

[00:02:59]Yeah, that's scary.

[00:03:01]- Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:02]- I just got terrified.

[00:03:04]So, do you have any questions for Joel?

[00:03:05]- Well, I heard you say in your introduction that doctors are actually learning from you, Joel.

[00:03:09]Are you hearing from doctors saying, "Oh, we didn't realize that."

[00:03:13]- Absolutely. - "Thanks for teaching us?"

[00:03:14]- Yeah, so, in that video in particular, pulse oximeter video... (audience chuckling) (Joel chuckling) - That scares me.

[00:03:17]- That scares me, too, actually.

[00:03:19]- Yeah. (Joel chuckling) - I mean, that's why I made the videos, right?

[00:03:22]- Yeah. - And so, on that video about the pulse oximeter, I had doctors, nurses, and healthcare professionals saying that they had never known about this, and they use it every single day for their patients.

[00:03:31]And so, it shows just how big of a problem it is, - Yeah.

[00:03:34]- And how more people need to understand about it.

[00:03:35]And if you think about healthcare overall- - And misdiagnosis, like, people, yeah.

[00:03:39]- Exactly.

[00:03:41]Less than 6% of all physicians in the United States are Black, and I think when you have more diversity there, you have people that come in and think in different ways.

[00:03:47]- Because everyone's different, too.

[00:03:48]Even if people have the same thing, their body reacts differently.

[00:03:51]- Yeah. - People tell you that the videos have actually saved their lives, right?

[00:03:55]- Yep, yeah, so, - Yeah.

[00:03:56]- People have told me that my videos have actually saved their life or changed their diagnosis, and so, actually, I made a video about a type of melanoma called acral lentiginous melanoma.

[00:04:05]It's a type of melanoma that's more predominant in people of Black and Asian ancestry.

[00:04:09]It can present on your nail beds, on your palms, on the soles of your feet.

[00:04:13]In Black patients, it can actually look like a bruise sometimes.

[00:04:16]Well, after I made that video, a woman reached out to me a few weeks later, and said that she'd seen my video, and decided to go to the doctor to get hers checked out, that she'd seen.

[00:04:23]She got a biopsy, and it turned out to be precancerous, so, she got it treated.

[00:04:27]- Wow. - But it was another example of just how you can put information out there, that when people get access to it, they can have the power in their own hands to go and see a physician, and feel a little bit more confident about seeing that doctor.

[00:04:39]- And advocate for yourself, - And advocate for yourself. - Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:42]- And when I think about medicine, all of it's about, none of what I'm talking about is really new, but it's about taking what's already existing, and this is what we do as doctors, taking what exists, taking the research out there, and putting it in front of people in a way that's understandable so that they can advocate for their own health.

[00:04:55]- Yeah, absolutely.

[00:04:56]You're incredible, okay. - Thank you. (chuckles) - We have, I'm blown away. (audience applauding) One video literally led to a kidney transplant, right?

[00:05:03]- Yeah, yeah, so, that's kind of crazy how it happened.

[00:05:05]So, in medicine, there's an equation called the eGFR equation.

[00:05:09]It stands for Glomerular Filtration Rate.

[00:05:11]GFR is essentially a function of how well our kidneys work.

[00:05:14]If you have a high GFR number, your kidneys work well, if you have a low GFR number, your kidneys aren't working well.

[00:05:19]Well, for decades, there's been a multiplier for Black patients, and only for Black patients.

[00:05:24]It's a Black versus non-Black equation that, essentially, would say that all Black patients have better kidney functioning than any other race.

[00:05:30]What they ended up doing was making it less likely for Black patients to get diagnosed with higher stages of chronic kidney disease, less likely to get transplants, less likely to- - Why did that just appear?

[00:05:39]Why did, why?

[00:05:39]- Yeah, and so, when you go back to the research, they use this muscle breakdown protein called creatinine, and they said that Black people, for some reason, had more creatinine, didn't know the reason why, and so, they said, it must be because Black people have more muscle mass.

[00:05:51]And so, they made this broad assumption for everyone.

[00:05:54]- Yeah. - It's only been since 2021 that a new equation was created that doesn't use race anymore, and as of 2022, the National Kidney Institute actually said, "Hey, if you've had this equation used, you can retrospectively go back and, like, reevaluate when you should get a kidney transplant."

[00:06:10]- Yeah. - Well, after I made that video, someone reached out, and they said that, "Hey, my sister, like, I sent them this video, and they actually have been moved up on the kidney transplant list."

[00:06:20]And now, they just got their kidney transplant last week, so, it just happened. - Wow, wow.

[00:06:24](audience applauding) - All from this video?

[00:06:26]That's incredible.

[00:06:27]- Yeah.

[00:06:29]- Well, the woman who saw the video is here today.

[00:06:31]She's never met Joel in person, and wants to thank him, so, everybody, please welcome Aneese.

[00:06:36](audience cheering) (upbeat music) - [Kelly] Say hi!

[00:06:43]- Hi, Aneese.

[00:06:45](cheering continues) - Hey, now, Aneese - Thank you so much.

[00:06:48]- Nice to meet you. - Thank you, nice to meet you as well. - You look beautiful.

[00:06:50]- Thank you, thank you so much.

[00:06:52]- Oh, you can have it, Kelly.

[00:06:53]- Hi. - Thank you, Kelly, nice to meet you. - Nice to meet you, yes.

[00:06:56]- Oh my gosh, you look beautiful.

[00:06:57]- You're a great hugger.

[00:06:58]- Thank you. - Yeah, meet Willie.

[00:07:00]- Hey, Willie. (squeals) (audience applauding) - How are you, so good to meet you. - I'm great, yeah, nice meeting you, too.

[00:07:05]Oh my god. - Have a seat.

[00:07:06]If you scoot there, you could sit right over here, if you'd like, yeah. - Okay.

[00:07:09]- Have a seat.

[00:07:11]- Thank you.

[00:07:11]- Would you like to try out this pulse oximeter?

[00:07:13](everyone laughing) I just like saying it, I feel smart. - Yes, gotcha.

[00:07:18]- So, what happened when you saw... Welcome to this show, by the way, first of all, yes.

[00:07:21](audience applauding) - Thank you for having me.

[00:07:23]Thank you. - Yeah, no, thank you for sharing this story.

[00:07:25]It's so important that people are self-advocating, and it's so important what he's doing.

[00:07:29]So, what happened when you saw the video?

[00:07:32]- So, when I saw the video, I had followed Joel before on Instagram.

[00:07:37]When he started speaking about the kidney disease, at that time, my sister was in stage four kidney disease, and everything that he shared, I immediately sent to her, and she went through the process.

[00:07:49]She filled out all the applications, and took everything to her doctors, and that's when she learned that she had moved up five years on the kidney list. - Wow.

[00:07:57]- Oh my gosh.

[00:07:58]At stage four, I mean, that's, yeah. - Yes.

[00:08:01]- [Kelly] Yeah, well, how is she doing, Esther?

[00:08:03]- She is excellent.

[00:08:06]My sister had a kidney transplant last Tuesday, - Yeah. (Aneese exhaling) and she is healing beautifully.

[00:08:14]Just as of this morning, everything is working fine.

[00:08:18]All of the anti-rejection medicines are working with her body and system, and the doctors are thinking to discharge her tomorrow.

[00:08:26]- Wow. - Oh, that's the best.

[00:08:27](audience applauding) - Wow.

[00:08:31]- Wow.

[00:08:33]Well, you have something that you'd like to read to Joel, right?

[00:08:36]- Yes, I do have a message from my sister, Esther.

[00:08:39]- Yeah.

[00:08:41](throat clearing) (paper crinkling) - "Hi Joel, and hi, Kelly."

[00:08:48](audience chuckling) "I wish I could be there today to say thank you in person, but I guess you'll have to settle for my little sister."

[00:08:55](everyone laughing) "Joel, we want to thank you for everything you're doing.

[00:09:00]Your work is so important, not just for our family, but families everywhere.

[00:09:06]Our mother used to tell us a story about her own great uncle who died because an ambulance refused to take him to the hospital.

[00:09:13]Our grandmother was sent away to a sanitarium when she contracted tuberculosis.

[00:09:18]Doctors and hospitals haven't always been kind to people like us.

[00:09:22]That's why we see you as a change maker.

[00:09:26]Keep sharing what you learn, and inspiring more Black kids to pursue a career in medicine because we need you.

[00:09:33]Love, Esther."

[00:09:35]- Oh my gosh. (audience applauding) Thank you so much. (Aneese laughing) - Thank you, it's not enough, it's not enough.

[00:09:41]- I love you both, thank you so much.

[00:09:47](Aneese sniffling) - It's so incredibly powerful what you are doing, man.

[00:09:50]- Yes, it is.

[00:09:51]- Yeah, do you have any other questions?

[00:09:53]- Well, I want to know, I mean, that was so beautiful and so powerful.

[00:09:57]Where do you want to take this?

[00:09:58]I mean, you are a star in your field, and what do you wanna do with all this?

[00:10:02]- So, when I think about what I wanna do next, I really wanna continue doing the science communication.

[00:10:06]I'm obviously gonna graduate soon.

[00:10:08]I'm gonna applying to residency, I wanna do general surgery, actually.

[00:10:11]I think it's one of those fields that doesn't have enough physicians in that space, but I've been doing a lot of other really fun stuff, too.

[00:10:19]So, I do a lot of policy work.

[00:10:20]I work at the White House with their Office of Public Engagement on different projects there.

[00:10:25]I've worked with the surgeon general's office, and so, I think the sky's the limit in terms of where I can go, but really, I'm focusing on exactly what you just said in the letter, making sure that I inspire the next generation - Absolutely. - Of students into medicine.

[00:10:37]- Yes.

[00:10:38]- I'm gonna be writing a book soon, so, I'm excited about that. - Oh yeah.

[00:10:40]- And I'm gonna have a TV show coming up.

[00:10:42](audience applauding) - What?

[00:10:43]What's incredible. - Whoa, congratulations!

[00:10:45]- Yeah. (chuckles) - Congratulations on all the success, and like, the coolest part about it is that you're just doing good in the world, and you're doing good by your family, by you, by all these other families that you're affecting, and that's the cool organic thing about it, is now it's translating into this beautiful thing that you're gonna be able to reach even more people.

[00:11:03]- Yeah. - And who knows what kind of, I know we were talking about maybe you went into surgery, what kind of field do you know you're gonna land there, but you're such a powerful presence, and you're such an amazing, positive educator, which I think is incredible.

[00:11:15]Thank you for being on the show.

[00:11:16]I'm so excited to be here. - Thank you so much for having me. (audience applauding) Ah, thank you. - Yeah, and I'm so happy for your sister.

[00:11:21]- Thank you so much, I'll let her know that. - Yeah, absolutely, yeah. - I'll let her know.

[00:11:24]Well, if you or a loved one would like more information on the updated GFR calculation, like the one that Aneese's sister used for her kidney transplant, head to the National Kidney Foundation's website right now.