Robert Putnam: Rebuilding American Communities for Democracy

[00:00:00][Applause] Professor welcome welcome to the show thank you good to be here you wrote a very influential book bowling alone a few decades ago which sort of chronicled the demise of the American Community right uh to to catch us up what essentially is the thesis of that book and why is it still resonant today um well the story basically is that over the this book was published now 25 years ago um over the preced in 25 to 30 years before that in other words about a half century ago Americans who had historically been connected with one another that's what this French philosopher toille said we were the most connected nation in the world that began to change and we started um knowing our neighbors less well we started knowing our families less well we started we began to slacken our involvement in Community Affairs politics but not just politics um we started going to fewer we bowled as much as ever before MH bowling but you maybe not know this bowling is big in America you know that half of more Americans Bowl than vote in America so it's right and bowling that's the one where you throw the ball in the air and you hit it with a racket is that the one is that what it is right well but you notice that people people are still bowling but the trend was starting that they weren't bowling in groups anymore they were bowling essentially alone right yeah anyway that's the story of the book declining all these all these measures of the way degree to which we were connected with one another even trusted one another going down down down and then the book went on to say um why is that and we had a we had I would change my views a little bit about what caused it is it just because people got worst and they suck a little bit more so we don't want to we don't want to hang out with people anymore you want to see the triang the U pie chart in the book that shows percentages I would I love me a good pie chart yeah show me I love it oh yeah I got oh I got a pie chart for you you want to see this TR chart in this part please pretty so why is it you well it was it's um a lot of different things partly um uh people spending more time commuting and less time for you know hanging out with friends uh I thought then am I allowed to say this on this show let's see let's hear what it is the television television was most of the no it turns out that's not true but I mean I did television was part of the problem yeah we were H we were oh no it's done only wonderful things for our community we like a person who became fake famous on television no it's warped everybody's mind we're doing it right now you're currently warping people's mind right now there are people who instead of spending time with their family were like I'm going to watch Robert putam alone on television well we and instead of having friends we started watching friends that's the basic picture you may not remember there was a a program called oh I know that was the one with George went they all hung out at a bar I know everything about culture yes well didn't that was and the worst of it is I thought this might continue of course I was writing the book because I wanted people to not going down this trend yeah and you know what happened we continued to bowl alone it's gotten worse in every way well it does feel like we are disconnected from communities uh I think you know people are talking about this this election yeah I I I want to get your take on what you saw people like uh um Steve Bannon was talking about how infuential this book was even uh AOC on uh just yesterday was talking about how we need to form these communities people are still talking about your book and what resonates there do you see what happened in this last election uh as connected to the trends that you saw um yeah uh so Steve Bannon is Trump's Guru yeah and I'm and Taylor I think too uh well yeah he's definitely part of his Fashion Icon I'm the guru's guru is that the way this I hate that idea but that's true what I said then was that America was becoming steadily more fragmented more isolated more less connected with our less trusting in people around us and um and that was true and um Bannon advised Trump that that's was their path to victory was to look for those people who were just completely isolated fragmented and didn't have any connections and they were going to give them some real connections and and actually the data show I believe in data the data show they were right that is to say the more socially isolated you were the more likely you were for were to vote for Trump I know there's there's a famous quote that says like dictators prey on loneliness yeah and essentially plays off of that idea that's right I mean do you see I mean when I hear this the ideas behind bowling alone and by the documentary that is out right now it does it points to what is good about joining communities I mean I've always felt that when I'm a part of groups I don't know if the answer to save our democracy is me joining yet another improv team I don't know if that helps I don't know if that saves everything but I I also see I go into the Trump World a lot I go to Maga events and I see in these these Dr these groups I see connection but I also see like a lack of accountability for people yeah we talk about how cruelty can fester in these like I I I hear this question in this that is posed in this this film which is like you need to join a group to save American democracy uh but what do you say to people who are like well the oath keep keepers are letting people in like how do you uh how how do you how do you find the right group or or how is this a time that's reflective of people finding the wrong groups or people feeling alone and therefore being manipulated by others who want to to utilize that for un un means it's a little bit of all of that um can I use some jargon on this show I love jar this show is so Pro jargon oh we we love pie charts and jargon on this show the kids they people throw it out come on Professor give me some well the distinction is between bridging social capital and bonding Social Capital so bridging Social Capital are my ties to other people just like me so my ties to other white male elderly Jewish professors that's my bridg bonding social capit we're all bonded together because we're all similar yeah and bridging Social Capital are my ties to people who are different from me like my ties to you know I don't know to people of A different race or a different gender or a different age or whatever I'm not saying bridging good bonding bad because if you get sick the people who bring you chicken soup will be your bonding Social Capital but I am saying that uh a um a society like ours which is very diverse needs a lot of bridging Social Capital with me so far I mean and so bridging good bonding bad you don't have to dumb it down that much okay but here wait a minute is also the case that building bridging social capital is harder than bonding Social Capital my grandmother actually knew that she said Bobby birds of a feather flock together she meant Bobby bonding social capital is easier to build than bridging Social Capital she didn't think I'd understand what that I meant which is why she used the Aven metaphor but okay so we're stuck down in a situation in which the kind of connections we need yeah are hard to build and the kinds of connections you could say sort of substitute connections that is the bonding Social Capital that's what the proud boys are is that I'm I'm try to answer your question you did it you used jargon and you used a nice little anecdote about the the birds I understand I understand the the the bridging capital is going to be more difficult where where are examples where that is successful I think right now you have a lot of people here who feel perhaps lost disconnected from culture and or society and or their neighbors like what are examples that you're seeing of of bridging this divide and finding that Capital well first of all can I say there is a a documentary movie that is the occasion for our getting together and talk and they have a lot of in the movie talking about your movie the movie that you're in that follows you yeah you don't have to be koi about it this is this medium is all about being blunt just say like watch my movie kids what I meant was the people who produced the movie Pete and Rebecca Davis highlight groups that that any of us could form right now new kinds of groups not the oldfashioned rotary clubs or whatever new kinds of groups but they and they're bridging and they're not about politics can I emphasize that we don't want to begin this is what AOC said we don't want to begin Now by having a if we're trying to move the country back in a better direction we shouldn't begin thinking we've got to start with the politics we got to start with just knowing our neighbors she meant to say bowling leagues she didn't she what she said was knit knitting leagues okay um but so you mad you didn't reference your book is that what you're saying right here no no because authors don't care whether we become famous we just want to be sure we get the facts right is that that's not been the case as far as I've seen it but yeah okay so back what do we do now we have to begin local we have to begin with kids because that's the Next Generation we have to begin not necessarily with politics and you asked me about how do we bridge I want can I just use a personal example I live up in a little little neighborhood in neighborhood out in the sticks in New Hampshire mhm we have a little neighborhood association that's my one group so and and we have a lot of things in common we all have to worry about the snow and I want to make sure that someone's going to help me I'm getting a little old so I can't I need to help somebody else shovel me out when it gets bad yeah and we were having a a neighborhood association meeting a couple of weeks ago and I discovered that one of these people was a trump supporter now hold on I'm making a I'm I know you know that I'm making a subtle Point here so here's the theoretical point when you want to bridge look for something that bonds across that right so what bonds me and this guy are who's going to shovel out you know and are we going to help one another shovel and can we get this snow plow to actually come that's our bonding but just for a moment I was putting my shell I was enabled to put myself in his shoes and him in my shoes because we were bonded by all these other things but Bridging the political divide I maybe that's a little too personal as a story but what I'm it's a story that illustrates that's how you do it you don't try to force yourself to S make friends with people who you think are evil you make you make encounters with other people who you know are decent people he actually would come over and and shovel my sidewalks but um he turns out also to be a trump supporter is that I don't know if that makes sense or not probably I oh I believe I feel like as somebody as somebody who can do very little physical labor I'm constantly looking for other people to do it for me yeah me too and if I were to bet the people who own snow plows and that type of equipment it doesn't necessarily happen on the blue side of the aisle so so make some friends because you're going to need some help down the line and we've I just want to go back a little bit to the big picture because I don't do right current events I want to give a historical framework and histal how far back are we going well before you were born 50 years ago Bob this is I mean ticktock buddy Tick Tock I'll take there I'll be quick um over the last 50 years we have become 50 years not over the last five or 10 years we've become steadily more polarized steadily more um unequal steadily more disconnected that's the Bly alone part um steadily less more more narcissistic 50 years Trump did not cause that Trump was the consequence of that and if Trump goes away we're still going to have that problem that we don't know our neighbors and don't trust our friends don't have friends and moreover it's class biased by which I mean people who are college educated people like you and me and maybe the audience we have a lot of friends still but people the two-thirds of Americans who are not college educated they are very likely to have have no friends at all now that is a time bomb we've and I talked about it already 10 15 20 years ago I've not yet had success but I'm hoping that tonight will be the beginning of My Success tonight is the night America get your friends pull them together sit in front of the television and watch the film and understand we can we can do this together uh because dear Lord who else is going to move this snow off of our our uh Join or Die is available now on Netflix Robert putam [Music]