Friendship Dynamics and Faith Deconstruction: A Conversation with Good Mythical Morning's Rhett & Link

[00:00:00]hey welcome before we start I just want to say that uh on this particular episode uh WR link from Good Mythical Morning are on and you know they're one of the uh most successful YouTube um personalities and I'm a huge fan I did the show and you've always said we're going to do this we will not talk about politics or religion when politicians change their mind we get mad I didn't want to start arguing with anybody this faith has been very meaningful for y'all it's defin who you are you can't make me believe something that I find to be unbelievable I did maybe we cross the line we did talk you don't listen to me I don't listen to you that Dynamic is toxic it is debilitating we understand both sides from me I'm not trying to convince you that it's not true I got more interested in sharing my truth I guess you would call it so I if uh you uh are offended by talk of religion or whatever I'm and maybe I cross the line trigger warning I'm just warning it's your trigger warning uh subscribe uh go to Hoy mandel.com if you want like some merch or whatever some stuff if you want some stuff but uh enjoy what I'm tired you're tired you've been up all night all right this is Hoy Mandel does stuff I'm Howe Mandel and you heard somebody saying they're tired who was tired me Jaclyn Schultz your daughter she's tired I have coffee is it what is this you're already tired of us yeah R and Link by the way we just showed up Rhett and Link are here the uh you guys are like uh YouTube sensation but you've done TV you've done everything you guys are musicians comedians uh improv actors well you know what I find fascinating is the fact that and they have a um people they're business people you guys are business business people business savvy M you are you created an industry yeah out of a friendship we are known as the businessman and the boy uh that is one of the ways that we are referred to at times children I don't know how that happened I think one child watched a video of ours and called yeah us the business the boy really yeah I've never heard they were like yeah yeah put put on the businessman and the boy the and why didn't you run with that that's a great like aand yeah yeah I have I talk about it all the time I mean it's one of trying make mention for a long time he's been trying to make the boy happen for me but you don't like being the boy I'm not really up for the boy how do you how do you identify uh okay uh he identifies as the businessman I'm no I'm a guy I'm just I'm like business it feels like he's taking advantage of you if it's like the businessman and the boy it feels a little like sketchy and weird it does listen why are we going to this dark place hold no but if you heard well that's the answer to your question if somebody was like I'm going to see the businessman and the boy tonight in like an entertainment context who do you think would would like be generating the most laughs the boy right the businessman is just pulling the strings but who's he kind of pushing out he's pushing out the boy so I feel like you should embrace being the boy because I think people like more you get your into your uh the more gray that seems to be I'm not knocking CU you guys I'll tell you something we've been doing this podcast for almost two years and I'm tell I could say without a doubt the best hair we've had I'm a big judge of hair oh well Jack Jackie didn't I mean she didn't take that bait no I think so I'm thinking back to all the guests we've had look at this you want you want to really consider this yeah before I give my answer I'm really thinking about who has better hair the businessman or the boy oh gosh here we go oh I don't know you know what you don't have to the boy I think I'm sorry yeah fine the boy's got a bright future ahead of him that's the point see again the businessman wants the boy to have the better hair because the businessman very tased Mamoa kind of thing oh thank you yeah which is a compliment yeah you look like you're using Aquanet just aqu nothing else I was once called Aquaman and the boy I was once approached by a drunk man in Key West who came up to me and said Jason mimosa really soing I am now known as Jason Mimosa like the Jason mimosa and the boy yeah yeah that's that's playing field okay how many different shows do you guys have oh gosh well we good mythical morning is our main thing I know that but then you got the cooking like and other people that aren't you yes ear biscuit is our podcast and then mythical kitchen is its own channel uh food show lots of different shows within that channel and bus man and the bo the boy now I'm having to own this boy the Boy does some business from time to time yeah what how does your does your father not re refer to you as a boy like my boy this is my boy a good question no he's never done that uh he says son I know son son he does he talks like and he talks like and he looks like I always get your dad and Theo V mixed up I can see that can you see that yeah yeah for sure do you ever see his dad no I want to see put up a picture of Theo Von and his dad together until uh they did the video version of the podcast not in significant number of people thought that his dad was just link doing a character like talking they thought that we had done like a character podcast where it was it was just link talking to he he lives in Myrtle Beach so like he gives me a dispatch from Myrtle Beach every week but I would gladly give up our show just to see him be like Theo's co-host like I would I would just I would take a backseat to that and the way your dad D talks and the way Theo talks are very very very similar how come you don't have that accent I I can turn it on if I need to but and then my D would you need to my dad my dad's up here maybe sometimes you know some if I really want my dad to listen to me if you got a flat tire Hey listen recently so um we still have a lot of family in North Carolina and my wife and I bought a cabin back in North Carolina for us to be able to stay with we go to see all the family and I had to meet a guy out there to do some tree removal and I was like I'm going to meet a few guys out here tree removal from a cabin isn't the cabin made of trees uh not from the cabin from around the cabin oh okay uh some problem trees that were you know encroaching and uh I just found myself I mean first of all this guy was I mean you forget you forget just how uh how rural someone can be once you kind of move out of the area and this guy was like what we would have considered like a mountain folk even from where we grew up and I was able to understand him I still have the ability to understand him but you can't help but in fact I actually thought uh I'm going to put a hat on you know because I was like I I don't want to be judged by this guy I'm going to put a hat if I put a hat on I've got my hair coming out the back I'm he I seemed like somebody he might respect a little bit more you know what I'm saying and then you find yourself just turning it on just a little bit cuz we' got some trees uh how long did this happen uh four months ago probably you still have his number in your phone I didn't end up going with him because I got a better estimate from somebody else oh cuz I was going to say we should call him and ask him put the trees back yeah we could totally still call him right we should call him uh yeah I I mean I probably do still have contact info but I'd love to call him um but go ahead and finish the story the story is done it's basically that occasionally you need to put on an accent in order to contract business all right all right if you're a businessman we'll uh put that that'll be a morning wood story right it was the morning that we met trees are wood yep there you go go there you go you guys have known each other since elementary school yeah 39 years of friendship as of a couple weeks ago oh I was told you were coming in for the 40th anniversary and you guys still get along we are we are we are next year uh get along that's a bad book I thought it was I thought this was supposed to be the 40th year yeah well you can you know what you can sit on this one yeah just just package it up we're celebrating 40 Years of friendship this 2022 oh yeah dud it's one of you is going to celebrate a year early the boy doesn't keep up with the numbers the businessman keeps up with the numbers it's 2024 so and from day one you have been really good friends and whether you were doing getting in trouble together having done my research whether you're getting in trouble together for writing dirty words on your desks to um working together and being in improv troops and going to college together I find it amazing because you know even in in music groups don't stay together this long have you had any disparaging times where you just go f you I don't want to even show up in the same room because I've even I've had that with my own daughter for years well there was for years if you wasn't there four there were several years I was going to tell you today I was going to tell you today you don't want to be with me you didn't want me to be in the room what were the years it was when from the years she was 16 till she was 21 yeah those are the bad years those were the bad years and she didn't want to be in the room with me we hated each other I can't imagine if we had a show together like we do now that she would even show up or do you agree with that is I don't want him to put words in your mouth yeah well I didn't know he hated me but yes I we did not get along you knew that you hated if you don't hate your parents a little bit at 16 then you're not going through like a proper developmental cycle we did not get along for a really long time for years how how I don't want to take up your show but I do want to know how bad it got how bad did it get it got really bad um he was he was super super strict I was the oldest I was he took the door off my room I wasn't allowed to have a door on my room why what were you what did he catch you doing behind the door cuz I wasn't allowed to close my door when I had people in there and I did and so he took the door off people boys yeah no doors in the house whatever I'm on board with that you ripped a door off I did he took away we have all beads in our house so car which I get because I got my just like 70s you have daughters when you got to park the boys two boys you don't have to worry boys you can give him nine doors yeah no he was fine with my brother closing the door with girls in the room I did have a double standard really old SCH apparently yes but you but you got through it look at you two well and I actually think that this is you know um a family relationship is a good analogy for our relationship right so I because we I think we're more of an old married couple old than than Brothers the vibe I'm getting is more of like a a businessman and a boy I've been really selling that oh [ __ ] I knew that was going to happen the moment that's where we started I was never going to get away from it but I'm just saying like that the you know I'm a like music and some of my favorite groups I go like why the at least there's only two of us yeah I mean yeah I think four five do you fight that's impossible yeah so we have a um in a in a sense we fight we've never had like we've never punched punched each other in the face I don't think we've ever got close I love that you're saying that with pride like that's an amazing we've never either did we well I just want to set the standard we've never it's been harder to not punch you in the face than well that's because you can't control your emotions but we at least I have emotions we haven't had one of those things where it's like I'm not talking to you I mean maybe like for a day there may be like okay I'm leaving and I'm not talking to you today but there's never been like an extended period of time where it was like we weren't communicating or we weren't okay oh we got to work on this thing we got to shoot this thing where we would just kind of get through it but we very rarely let resentment build so I had to too long you're not an old married couple then yeah there's too much it's like I mean we we we're not just staying together for the children it's like we actually want to enjoy ourselves but when you uh disagree and when there is some friction between you outside of business or what and may business may be the thing that starts that friction you would think it would be hard to be funny and entertaining or maybe that adds to it sometimes when people are like messed up great songs come to mind you know there's there's two different levels of this the first level is can we talk about the second level first yeah yeah the first was just easy I'll get it out of the way yeah I'll give you more of the second one the juicy one I guess okay go ahead the unj juicy one is just like you get so we just get on each other's nerves and you just need some time apart like we spent so many hours together for so many years that it's like okay we're not going to hang out on the weekends you know it's like we had to start having separate weekend lives and then would you know we we get better at not being annoyed with each other and and but that type of thing will come through but when you do five shows a week right for almost 11 years now fans start to pick up on tension and they make a lot more of it than it actually is they're like this is the year but it is there at times like you go from like we're having a great time together to we're we sometimes we'll try to harness the frustration into comedy so we'll start taking more Jabs at each other and it's just a different tone but it I think it's still funny but it's a bit dangerous because it starts to get a little too true you we might stop laughing like we might not be laughing at each other we might be doing something that someone watching is laughing at but you can tell oh they're not making each other laugh today I think that's a good indicator that they're a little bit they're annoyed with each other but that's far from saying you know I I can't do a show this week yeah the juicier thing is the there's been a couple of times when it's you know we make fun of like uh being in touch with like me me being in touch with my emotions or him not being and like that's that's an extreme and that's not true but there have been times in the past like maybe a couple of like maybe two times over the 11 years that I've been like if we're not like I don't want to I don't want to be friends on camera if we're not if I don't feel like we're friends off camera and it I would have this very I would have a need for us to just hang out have fun together do something together and that wasn't just for somebody else's entertainment but just for us it's like a method actor I would have it's like when you show up no Howe it's called being an actual friend but and see my perspective on that you're so you're on R side on this a littleit here's the thing a method well when you have that okay go ahead so we've we've worked this out but one of the things that we found is that um I've always thought even from the early days when we were in a cow pasture when we were 14 doing a Blood Oath saying that we were going to create together one day or create something big together just we didn't it was ambiguous we had no no idea what it was going to be but we knew we wanted to create together when we get together like you know we had we were in a high school band together I always saw us being together like our friendship was kind of based in the things that we were going to do together and to create together so sometimes we'll be hanging out we'll be watching something and I can't watch any I can't be entertained by anything without immediately start thinking about what are we going to do like how what does this Inspire us to do and sometimes to be like don't talk about work right now and so for me I don't see it as work right I see what we do as my passion and it's the way that I kind of experience my friendship with link it's the things that we do together and the things that we create together but I respect him when he says let's not talk about work because I do realize that well it is also business it is also work and if it just becomes about the things that we're doing together which are so externally focused they're designed to kind of be for somebody else a lot of times and not just for us that I have to kind of pull back and be like okay you know what we'll talk talk about that on Monday so there's a little bit of a your wives ever get involved cuz you got to bring some of this home and then they I mean I definitely vent to Christie about it like when I mean when I told I I is that why she hates RH yes it's it's it is a weird thing F first of all like I was like here's the email that I wrote to Rhett read it and she's like you go girl you send that email and it was like if we're not going to actually be friends I don't want to keep pretending to be friends on the internet and it was you didn't say it was it it was in that it was long and it was it was that an extreme characterization of that was the message of it and that was just that was the emotional message so what I get from this is Rhett is just showing up for work but not for you that's not that's how I felt I know you're hurt you're hurt and and this is an intervention mention today this is I want to bring you guys back listen we this was years ago okay and you know what your wife gave you the stamp of approval but you haven't told the rest of the story the rest of the story which is very significant was um I don't remember the rest of no uh I it's funny that I sent an email because I don't send emails you're I wouldn't do that now I would have I would have said let's get together but his response was let's let's talk about this let's talk through it and I think it you know he was like I want to hear you I want to and he he processed it he stopped and he was like I'm going to listen I'm going to hear you and I'm going to respond to it you know like he was saying we just we work differently we conduct friendship differently and the overlaps and like what what matters most to us in our friendship and the needs that we have are different because you're different humans but that's that that's not the that's not the full rest of the story okay because we we yes I read it I said let's talk about it we talked about it I I gave you my answer at the time which was a little bit of what I already said which is just like you know I consider the time that we spend together working I consider the time together that we're making things that we're doing the podcast is like for me that's friendship building because we're being our authentic self I love having a good time with you on G Mythical Morning all this stuff but you know at the end of a week it's like we spent 50 60 hours together so it's just like I'm going to kind of chill with my wife and my kids on the weekend or whatever um versus like hey let's go surfing or whatever and uh but then multiple years later yeah you have you already forgotten about my tearful apology I mean that was that was a very that was a big moment in our friendship forgive and forget man hang on let me do we have any uh sad like very well I'm not going to reenact it yes you should I need a refresher I hang wait hang on let's score it okay I agree with this yes let score it I'll give you got to be public domain give me a minute I'll give you my best uh Recreation reenactment does have to be public domain pardon me yeah you're right public domain yeah CU royalty free yes hang on which ruins the emotion royaltyfree sad music so that we can do this naturally and just let it flow have you found any I see him sad no copyright oh we getting the ad for the where he gets it you got it there you go okay you know I I recently um I reread that email that you sent like 3 years ago you did you didn't say say anything man you just stared at me said that's what you should do right now and I [Music] just I just want to I [Music] just I just want to say sorry for the way I reacted to [Music] that because I I'm kind of ashamed of my my response to that because reading that now I see that you were saying that you just wanted to experience friendship and I just kind of gave you my perspective back to try to explain the way that I felt about it and and really kind of Tred to defend myself but I didn't take the time to acknowledge your need in what you were saying invalidate that and I just I just feel like an [ __ ] I'm sorry you should be I don't remember what I said it was it it was pretty moving at the time and I did cry and it was real I did cry so it it did take two two years to get like a full closure on it yeah it's was interesting cuz I thought we this wasn't it and and now and now the re celebrating our 40th year of friendship yes seems like 40 but it's only 39 when you have when good things are happening they seem yeah longer and our wives you asked about our wives I mean that's like a that was like an arranged friendship like you would have an arranged marriage kind of a thing because they met through us once we started now are they close they're very close in fact I I think that you know it's interesting you know you you always this is something we have we've never talked about I want we want to give you things that we've never talked about right we talk on the internet all the time we we talk too much so we want to give you things that are special we've never talked about has never been spoken about before this particular Dynamic right so one of the things that uh wait can we uh let's uh break for commercial and then no because I want to hold them over the sponsors and then that's but and then when we come back what are you going to be what is this about I don't know but it's something R link have been on the air for 11 years doing that show but 39 years together performing and we are about to hear something that no one's heard before mhm not even not even you not even link yeah link doesn't even know what it is so we'll be back with more right after this wow okay yeah we're in a we're in a commercial now why does it sound like that Kenny I'm it's like recording in my bathroom what's with the sound Kenny there's scrolling there's Echoes everything it's always everything oh my god well you know what's good this product ah rayons again yes and it's my favorite time of the year it's the best time of the year yeah fall we're changing colors on the leaves cozy Vibes and my personal favorite holiday Ray not not not Halloween no I know what you're going to say what rayon's anniversary it is I know I know happy anniversary raycon woo yes it's the only time like it's the only holiday where you can get 20 to 40% off of rayons which is why it is my favorite holiday of the season because Halloween you just get like a candy get 20 to 40% off this is a treat mhm see what I did there it is a treat this is a real treat not a trick it's a treat you know and uh their everyday earbuds are known for delivering high quality audio and thoughtful features like 32h hour battery life and the inar fit is amazing Perfection it is perfection so comfy um and to thank everybody who shown them support in the past six years raycon is offering 20% off of everything on their site with selected products up to 40% off that's insane so celebrate raycon turning six 6 years old with their biggest sale of the Year going on now hurry now to buy ron.com Howe does stuff and use code birthday to get 20 to 40% off sitewide and you know the sound will definitely be better than this keny wow that works we're we're back we are back I love it okay so reset it up though there is a I'm going to tell you something uh that we now we've built it up and it's probably going to be a little disappointing but let's just keep going let's keep going with it hey hey can I just say something yes we built it up we built it up not for you to tear down you know what I'm about to tell you something the audience is going to be disappointing I'm about to tell you something I've never told you before get I'm building it back well when you say it's going to be disappointing you're going to disappoint link yeah the audience is going to be very enthused I can't wait for you to hear this call your friends call your neighbors and watch are you setting up for another commercial break disappoint link I wish we had another sponsor I wish I had one more [ __ ] sponsor but no I don't one thing do you know the feeling I would love to go to commercial but nobody is advertising and here we are in another Comm still in the bathroom Kenny still in the bathroom how do you not adjust the sound this long he working on it so busy busy scroll scrolling let him scroll Echo go to the I don't know anything about audio ever since um Kenny has started we've had a little bit of an issue but not an issue with our sponsor which is Butcher B this is again one of my favorites number one because I'm a mom and I have kids and I don't want to go to the grocery store but not just because I don't want to go to the grocery store but because butcher Box gives me high Quality Meats and products that's actually cheaper than going to theore so get you get incredible deals on Premium Cuts from from your grocery store you get great deals and great not from the grocery store from butcher box better than even the grocery better than the grocery store yeah yes where do they get it I don't know we get it from the box comes to the house they get it straight from the butcher it's the butcher box butcher what butcher Bo say 10 times fast butcher BS butcher Butcher box butcher Bo butcher box butcher box butcher box yeah okay so butcher box is actually amazing it's giving us a 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about before uh where people would ask us the secret to our friendship longevity of our friendship and I would all often say having um a common goal having something that you're working on together is a great way to kind of keep you friends in other words it's like a married couple staying married for the sake of the kids but what happens when couples that are together for the kids become empty nesters a lot of times they end up getting divorced right or they have like a reinvention of their relationship so link once pointed out to me that it was hurtful that he used that I used that Dynamic and I think may maybe in that email or maybe in the subsequent conversation about it when you were like I get what you're saying and I don't think it's untrue but really it kind of makes it sound like the only reason we're friends is because we're working on something together and I was like you know what you're right I'm going to stop using that analogy or I'm going to stop using it in isolation I'm going to have other things that I say I'm going to be like well I actually love this guy and I want to be his friend that's why we're friends and then here are some maybe some keys to like staying good friends but there's a dynamic that you often use in describing our wife's relation our wives relationship and that is it's kind of an arranged marriage now I'll take two two issues with that number one every relationship is arranged is circumstantial our friendship is based on the fact that we went to the same school my parents moved to buoy Creek and you were in class or whatever can I just I'm getting uncomfortable do you want to in this room or is it something you two want to work out uh I like glancing over and looking at your encouraging I feel like I need you keep but but the wonderful thing is I think that besides me my wife's favorite person is your wife but is an arranged marriage right but what I'm saying when you lead with that what it sounds like is you know well they probably wouldn't be friends if it wasn't for us and what I'm saying that's true what and so and I don't agree with that because they wouldn't have ever met yeah but I'm saying but I feel like that puts the emphasis in the wrong place because I think our our wives are I think it's a mischaracterization of our wi relationship because they're actually really really close talk all the time oh yeah consider each other best friends some of the best marriages are arranged marriages am I right so here's the thing because I change I am so confused because the way I change the way that I talk about our friendship I what I'm asking you to do is when people ask us about our wives you always lead with well it's kind of an arranged marriage I think you should say our wives are best friends because they are and it's true it's a setup and I think that that's how you should characterize it you know they're our wives are best friends see just start with that ranged the best friendship we get credit for it has your wife said that she is upset with the way that he talks about their friendship no is that where this is coming from or is this is coming from me from you yeah yeah she doesn't listen to anything I love what I'm getting in your Dynamic is U if there aren't problems we create them you can create them and then try to fix [ __ ] that doesn't exist that's what relationships are all about really cuz I'm sensing that you know manufactured conflict and that's what you've done today for us in the hopes of talking about [ __ ] that you've never talked about before because you've been on so you're making up [ __ ] I'm I'm just doing this for you guys uh really good and to hear that the this arrangement of non- arranging friendship right is really seems to be working out yeah I you have no idea how confused I am from the inside but I'm glad that a lot of podcasts will talk to people and there's no resolution and this is all we always resolve Jess I love you buddy I love you Jesse actually just said to our wives love each other cuz we were together uh a little weekend away in Big Sir uh because we do spend a lot of time together still because he because he wants it to not he forces that so that like when actors I was trying to say earlier when actors are going to do a movie and they're going to pay best friends the director will have them flying a weend weekend together right so that there is a real chemistry and you want that same thing so you will arrange against maybe your better Jud he doesn't want it to be method acting for work then it's about work again he actually just wants to have a friendship you're not getting it it's not all about work you're right Jackie yeah that's right yeah I wish you guys had a talk more when you were 16 he would understand you better I don't understand it but you're right about people rearranging and Reinventing I've been married for 43 years yeah yeah and then the kids left and now we reinvent it and uh that we're on the verge of that and I am open to advice the businessman and the girl that's who we are my wife so so how did you reinvent like first of all did did did it register did it register with you like okay last kids leaving the house the Dynamics about to change I'm anticipating this I'm going to be proactive or did you realize that it had happened I'm sure your relationship is better now that the kids left the house because I was so problematic I'm sure it created issues between you yeah when you left things were better when you I'm being honest when you are not around it's just everybody's happier and that's but she was the first yeah she was the first and uh but uh how is it it's been more problematic lately since no this this damn podcast because I would spent so much time in on the road I was not around what made it people ask what made the marriage work it was the fact that I wasn't there to not be around me is to love me gotta understood you you do well yeah we've met we've seen each other a couple of times and I felt like it's a really good arrangement you guys have actually stayed away from you're probably one of the few um internet Sensations that have stayed away from controversy you really and and I don't know if that's just because of who you are is that something you work hard though I shouldn't say that because uh in thinking when I first was aware of you do you remember I did your show I did I was there oh yeah yeah so but but when I came to do your show and I didn't know you and I looked up I guess what was coming you were very um or whatever I was reading at that time was devoutly Christian right you know and then which I think is possible controversy not for me personally but then you started talking about religion and maybe moving away from it yeah but why would you do that publicly you're going to alienate people why do you do that why did you do that a scary decision yeah but it's not a scary decision well maybe it is a scary decision to make that move personally and decide this is how I'm going to live my life that's scary enough but then why do you need because as somebody who's a fan of what you do you really didn't need to wasn't necessary that's my point I think it became necessary so so first of all the transition away from Christianity uh because yes we were raised super conservative Evangelical Christian not just in our childhood but we began our adulthood in that way spent most of our 20s that way and then in our 30s that was when I was kind of the first one to start sounding the alarm about I don't think this stuff is true I I and and it's a long story we talked about it quite a bit but it led to uh me leaving the faith and then sort of everyone dropping like flies after that right so that we kind of don't consider ourselves Christians at this point and that happened about 10 years ago it was a little different Paces for different you know people but then what we Contin to do different people in the foresome the foresome yeah the what we started to do you know the the evolution of online media it was very different 10 years ago and it has changed and gotten so much more personal right and we end up talking about so many more personal things on our podcast and we were in you know our podcast when it first started was an interview podcast we were talk to online personalities we're asking all these really deep questions we're asking questions about their upbringing their faith whatever and we had never disclosed anything about us and there was lots of assumptions based on some things that we had done some things that we had said and it for to me it just every year that passed I just felt like this hypocrite that was talking about pretty much every single personal thing every idea that I had on our podcast or whatever but never talking about this huge major because it was such a it's the most pivotal change I've ever experienced personally because it was a we were in very deep it was our entire worldview it impacted every relationship every conversation the way we saw every the way we lived every minute of the day we weren't nominal Christians we were like we were professional missionaries for a while right that's how we got our start and we would tell our we would be interviewed and we would tell a story about well we were engineers and then we became YouTubers without talking about this middle like three or four year period where we were actually working as professional Christian like evangelists and so I was like I just feel like we're leaving this piece of our lives out that people deserve to know cuz I'm we're disclosing all this stuff and I was like I know we're going to lose fans I know there's going to be people who like in fact we hear it all the time my I don't let my kids watch you guys anymore you know you went to Hollywood and betrayed Jesus and it's like I'm like well that's not exactly what happened I've talked about what happened but I'm not I didn't do it to gain fans or lose fans I did it to be authentic I get that but you could be authentic without as somebody who is um you know taking a check from the man you know is I'm on broadcast TV doing America has got talent in that I vehemently um steer clear of uh religion and politics yeah and I feel like I can get done whatever I need to get done and I could be I'm not being dishonest as much as I'm just you know avoiding um you know I the best term is is I'm on broadcast which is a broadcast if you want to cast broad yeah then you don't want to you know I completely agree but if you had been a preacher if you had been a pastor at some point been weird you right if you had been a rabbi okay go ahead if you had been a rabbi you and me walked into a bar then they would be like he wasn't Howie a rabbi at some point to me that's where it came from is it wasn't just like hey I want to be cool and like the funny thing is is like the whole deconstruction movement they call it now which is people leaving Evangelical Christianity or Christianity in general has become a bit of like a trendy thing right because well because we're seeing this huge Exodus of people from the church it's a generational shift that we're experiencing for all kinds of reasons so people talking about it is a is a little bit trendy yeah and it wasn't like we're doing this to enter some new status or be considered in a certain way I don't like controversy I don't like people being upset I don't like people saying they're never going to watch again because of this and so and I was a little and I and I do feel like I've pulled back a little bit in the amount that I want to talk about it and and then because I don't want to disparage people who have faith you know it's like there's all it's very difficult to figure out what is going on with the world it's very difficult to figure out what the nature of this reality is the thing I have the biggest problem with now is people who say that they know exactly what the nature of God is what the they know the nature they know exactly what happens after you die and this is what you need to do to be prepared at this point I'm like nobody knows nobody's got it figured out and and the only thing I have a problem with is if you tell me that you do have it figured out do you think it was less about the authenticity for your viewers and more about your own personal Journey that if you came out with who you are or how you developed then it said more it was more it conf confirmed who you were as a person like it was more of an internal thing you talking about it openly I think so it was about bringing this kind of balance I've talked about that exact but it's not just you you both were in the of the same thought process how did how do you make such a Monumental move I mean you're only co-hosts and friends you're not one person how are you able to navigate how far how honest at the timing of your life get together that's what I found fascinating you're talking about personally and then deciding to talk about it publicly both things um yeah I mean his he kind of spearheaded this he the the the questions in the quest of okay I need I have some I'm not satisfied with some answers I'm getting he I was his sounding board for his spiritual deconstruction and I so I think that I was you know just kind of a long for the ride honestly because it it I'm not my brain doesn't work in the same way I was much more comfortable because I thought it was working for me I thought that how I conducted my faith was more helpful than harmful actually now I've started to realize over the O over the past decade that there were a lot of things that were healthy for me to shed in terms of um judgment and shame and how I processed that um but as a sounding board I I was I was pretty much just kind of like a step or two behind him in terms of my evolving beliefs because as we said you know you're the the first the the questioning personally the decision to make a change in direction of thought and how you operate your life is a real personal thing that could have been a huge wedge and maybe the end of this partnership well and it you know it started with the first person I kind of confided in was my wife and and we've I've seen this so many times it's very unusual for a married couple that are both in a particular faith and one person says adios most of the time those and in in divorce right the first time I told her I mean listen we didn't believe that Evolution happened we we believed that Adam and Eve were real we you know we we believe that what is in the Book of Genesis was like history and so when I was there a moment where this came where you you had a Flash and you went wait wait wait wait uh it was like a I started reading about this in my early 20s and I but mostly what I would do is I would go and I would be like I okay there's there's all these people s saying that the Earth is you know 10,000 years old but like every time I go to a museum they're like this thing lived millions of years ago never never looked into this but I started reading about it and actually I started reading from like I I would go to Christian sources right there's a lot of Christians who don't believe that there's a lot of Christians who believe in evolution right there's a lot of Christians who believe the world is old or whatever and kind of accept the establish science and so I would slowly read these sources and kind of my view was changing but then when it was like uh I but that's I don't know how to reconcile this particular thing about well if we're if we're have this common ancestor with chimpanzees and you know apes and Adam and Eve how do you explain that I would start asking these questions and then I would like go to my pastor go to these other people I would ask them questions and I didn't get satisfactory answers and then it just was like a house of cards that was slowly falling until I remember writing in my journal I was journaling at the time uh I was like I'm pretty sure I don't believe any of this stuff anymore right but all along the way I would tell like when I told my wife that I thought Evolution had happened she burst into tears I just want to give you an idea of what where we come from in the worldview that we were all sort of held captive to and so but the funny the funny thing is is that but I never reacted that way no so I actually start I I I would meter out the conversation with Jesse at the time be like she can only handle so much but link and I would hang out and I would be like bro let me tell the last let me tell you the last thing that I read that really makes me think that none of this stuff is true um and you would listen and again you weren't the kind of guy that was going to go off and do the research on your own but you were the kind of guy that was going to listen to someone who you trusted who had yeah I I mean I I read a couple of books too but like you know it wasn't it wasn't quite as you weren't searching you weren't he was seeking and sharing and you were listening and being much more passive so if he and I Val the security of what I had and I just felt like there was a lot at stake in trying to I was like yeah I'm I'm going to be here for you and I'm going to I'm going to lovingly listen and respond and be a sounding board but what I'm really going to do is I'm going to I'm going to try to like say yeah but let's just kind of Tamp all this down you know get it out of your system I think is what I thought at first and so what was the switch you went yeah I mean it was just the preponderance of it it just kept coming I mean anywhere you anywhere you look I mean it's like it just kept coming and I did start reading other people's accounts of deconstruction and their reasoning and and was your wife also a lot of that resonated did they have the did she have the same she was she was yes because it was we believed that it would it would split us up yeah that like the Biblical teaching that we adhered to was okay you're not going to stay together you can't do this without Jesus basically you Jesus is holding you together anyway so and and how old were your kids when this was happening my oldest son was maybe four five six so that they're not IND so he had given him the funny thing about my oldest son is that you know the first time we one of the first times we sent him to Sunday school and they're teaching from the Old Testament you know at Sunday school and they're talking about you know it's always amazes me but I guess they do it because it's in the Bible but they're like talking about the conquest of the land of Canaan you know and people God commanding the murder of women and children who were not Israelites and like my son has what I think is an emotionally healthy reaction to that which is like who is this God that is demanding this of his people and like we didn't have good answers right there's Christian apologist have lots of answers it's like well actually it's a little bit different and those people kind of deserved it if you think about it it was God's judgment it wasn't there there's lots of answers that they have they're not good answers they don't actually solve the problem and so what we were seeing is that I don't think this kid is going to survive this you know he's not like we were like what you did when we were growing up is there was no internet no one actually went to the library if you had a question you asked your parents and they told you what the truth was but like our kids were're in a place where it's like well I've got I I can access actual information about this I can access other perspectives that's essentially what happened to me at a started going on the internet so I don't know if they would have um I don't know they never got locked in very very much they were young your family they're how are are they alive are your parents alive y mhm and how are they with this they're still they still believe they're still in we have a good relationship um because I think mostly because we choose not to talk about it talk about this very often and when we do we try to talk about it in a respectful way again I I'm not interested in changing my family's Minds I that's not I'm not I'm trying to be as not Evangelistic I'm like this faith has been very meaningful for y'all it's defined Who You Are it's you know it has been incredibly helpful and transformational for you I'm not trying to take that away from you I'm not trying to convince you that it's not true but I'm saying for me I was really concerned about whether or not it was true and I've become overwhelmingly convinced that uh it's either definitely not true or impossible to prove to be true and and I can't believe it you can't make me believe something that I find to be unbelievable but bringing me back to the first question you as a team uh made a decision to make this public and I know you're saying it's to but there had to be a lot of fear in just yeah approaching a microphone with especially for me because I feel like I was not as I I the change that I made was very important to me and I absolutely believed it but it's not the type of thing that I wanted to all of a sudden have to defend publicly like just I wasn't interested in that like the way that Rhett likes to talk about those things is that just I didn't want to I didn't want to sign up for that I did not want to I didn't want to start arguing with anybody you know and I really didn't want to ruffle feathers but it for me it what put me over the edge was inclusivity versus exclusivity and judgment and inclusion like I really wanted like I was in I was a love an inclusive person that wasn't excluding somebody based on their any type of orientation you know right and was that which is a dichotomy toward the teachings of exactly we we have all you know we have all these fans who come from all walks of life all different perspectives Ives yeah some people who you know are Conservative Christian people but a lot of people who are not and I think that our philosophy of inclusivity and accepting people and encouraging people to accept themselves versus encouraging them to adhere to sort of a stone AG moral philosophy that is something that that philosophy has been incredibly harmful to a lot of people and to a lot of people who call themselves mythical beasts you know our fans so I think we were like well listen we first of all we don't want you guys to think that we stand with that that's not who we are right that that's what put me over the edge was I you know I didn't want to alienate and I and be presumed to be judging fans that I cared about and that I was connecting with and that I was hearing their stories and my heart was going out to them and I was and so I I didn't want them to think the exact opposite of what I felt about them as people um so I got more interested in sharing my truth I guess you would call it no but it's this is a really interesting wonderful conversation which kind of opens us up to not only what you believe or don't believe but who you are as human beings and the key is having respect for absolutely everyone for Humanity for thought for the pursuit of the truth you know and not being closed-minded because and and not that faith is closed-minded but I think we are uh uh developing we're always developing and and uh humanity is very comfortable always in stopping the development if you're comfortable where you are most people don't want to learn more don't want to hear more don't want to see more don't want to experience more they just want to hang on to what they have and we all live in this bubble and few people are like you guys where you're kind of like you got to be open you gotta be well listen let me tell you on this side of it it's it's a lot better as someone who lived within the confines of that system and someone who's who is uh more just a you you know humanitarian humanist at this point um yeah it's easier because I mean there were there were years of I I have to F I have to find a way to love gay people but not but just but Jud but not really not really accept them or their partner or whatever more so than that for me it I had because you know if you're a Christian and especially if you're Evangelical Christian the Mandate is the Great Commission Jesus telling people to go and share the gospel right you're supposed to bring people into the fold what that does is it sets up this Dynamic with every single interaction that you have with a person there's a burden that you need to tell them this thing and that the dynamic in your mind is that I have a truth I possess the right answers I possess the truth and there needs to be an exchange of right TR truth to them that they don't have it that Dynamic is toxic it is debilitating it changes every interaction that you have have with somebody I enjoy living life so much more now where I get to talk to somebody and I'm like what am I going to learn from this person not what can I teach this person how can I tell this person that what I believe is right was like well let's see what I here's another person with another specific experience from a different place in the world they've got a certain perspective I have a I have a lot more personal satisfaction out of getting their perspective and being like well how does that impact my perspective versus carrying around this book of truth that you have to shove down people's throats in every opportunity that you get even if you're doing it in love it's the dynamic is that you're right and they're wrong and that you got to settle it you know that's my my um kind of uh Panacea that I talk about for aging is curiosity you know and when we are kids taking religion totally out of the out of the equation when we're kids you know well when I was a kid people listen to radio you know you want to hear what the latest song is and you wanted to go buy the album or you want to stream that music now because you want to know what's hot you want to look at online and on Instagram to see what people are wearing and how they're dressing and you want to see what the latest style is and then you reach an age or a time where you go well I don't really care about the new music you know that was you know this is not music what I heard was music and you stick with the haircut that you have because you only care about you check out you really do you go it's just too tiring it's just too I just want to hang on and I reme my memories and my life and my bubble that's the way it is and you don't really you're not accepting it's has nothing to do with religion you're not accepting anything new and as somebody who is you know I'm close to 70 years old I sit with my kids every day and everybody I work with is really young and even as somebody who went into comedy you know and and did very well in the 80s in comedy I can't tell you how many times I didn't know what YouTube was my son showed me YouTube 20 years ago or whatever it was and I would see things that were clicked on that had a 100 million you know clicks and when I was reading all the comments they go this is hysterical this is funny and and it would kill me because I'd go 100 million people are saying this is funny and I swear to you I I don't get it I don't know I don't know and everybody sees the funny explain to me the funny and now at this point in my life because curiosity is what runs through my veins I want to know I want to know how to engage you I want to know what it is so you just spoke right to me I mean what else is life what else is life if not like this idea of calcifying and being rigid which again when you when your worldview is dominated by this idea that there was a truth that was dispensed 2,000 years ago and it is the unchanging truth God is immutable he does not change we have this almost cultural uh idea like when politicians change their mind we get mad but when politicians change their mind maybe they actually got new information isn't that a good thing the whole flip-flop thing it's like what did they flop to they flop to the right side of this issue that's something to be celebrated but this idea that you would be this rigid calcified thing you become brittle you you know when you get calcified and you get brittle you can be broken pretty easily I want I want to stay malleable I want to stay flexible as I get old and listen I I we I've known this about you for a long time that you have when people find out you're you know in your late 60s they're like no he's not I I'm gonna I'm going to go I got to go on Wikipedia I got to confirm that why would I lie about it but because you don't give off that type of energy because you're you're curious you're curious but I also see the other way I I understand people who are devout religious people and I understand people who just stop and and that is you know uh I have fomo which I I guess uh Oprah coined the phrase but the fear of missing out if the the comfort in at least believing you know the comfort in not needing to like there's something going on out there that you don't know about that not is a wonder it seems like a wonderful safe feeling the fact that you don't know is and fear fear and and anger and it comes from ignorance from people not knowing not most of the time it's not used for good right and I believe that the most brilliant people the smartest people in in the world are the people that are so aware of what they don't know and the dumbest people in the world are the people that know it all dude I've been saying this lately there something better to be around the older I get the Dumber I realize that I am in fact recently I've come up with a way of describing my brain I was like I realize I have like a Toyota brain right it's just like when I coming coming from where I come from I was like I think I've got I think I've got like a Mercedes brain you know I think I'm one of the smartest guys around here and then you you you you you start running into people and I keep meeting people who are a lot smarter than me a lot more educated a lot more informed about certain things can explain things a lot better understand things a lot better and I'm like okay I think I'm a I think I'm a Toyota like it's pretty reliable but it's not Alexis and I think that just recognizing that and and and living like I well I want to meet some I want to meet some Lexi so they can explain some things to me versus just concluding that I've got I mean I remember a moment when I was like eight 18 years old and I remember legitimately thinking I think I kind of understand all the fundamental things that you're supposed to understand about life in the universe because I am a child of God I am a Christian I have a relationship with Jesus I believe the Bible that's where I get my morality from I'm really this is just I'm really blessed I'm really blessed to have found the truth the universal truth of the god of the universe that I have a relationship with I am really really lucky now I sit down and I say man I I just know such a small fraction of the things that there are to know I'm just I'm part of a collective I'm just a pixel on a screen I'm not the screen I always thought that my brain was a three-wheeler like really dangerous but a lot of fun yeah but but you start also realizing how much you don't know because we have so much access to all this information now and other points of view whereas I think even when I was younger there was no access to that I was in my little bubble where I grew up or with my family and it's whatever that bubble decided to tell me or show me that was my world view and now you have the internet where you can but an algorithm just forms a bigger bubble you know so but you have to you have to like fight to go outside your algorith say even in politics like there's so many people that have one point of view and so they only watch or see that one point of view and you have to go out of your way to look for the other point of view whether or not you agree with it just so that you see the other side yeah life is tough you know and there's need and it's scary because you don't know what tomorrow brings and you don't without knowing what tomorrow brings without a finite you know and and religion gives you a fin this is C would be really nice right so when you pull that net out from under yourself it's a little bit and then you and then you allow yourself to be that open to anything can happen I don't know what the [ __ ] is going on but I'll I'll see how I react to it that's a little bit at the same time it's it's stimulating and wonderful and life and experiential you know I love thrill rides I still do at my age I whenever we go to a an amusement park I have to get on the the roller coaster and you know the scarier it is the higher it is the faster it is the more I think I'm closer to killing myself the more fun it is but you know you're safe you you trust those Engineers ultimately right that's the that's the thrill of it sometimes you know I don't not not in those little amusement parks that show up if you're like a state he he doesn't he wants I don't want the guy have would go in the you said you would have gone in the submarine that went down to yeah so he doesn't care about being safe right yeah I I would have done that but I would have not thought that that could have happened right so you're with me cuz I would not have thought Le is not a he's not a safe he's a safe person but he's not a safe person if you know what I me but you'd figure that guy knew what he was doing I mean he had a like a PS5 control yeah I would have believed if you can send Mario to the next level why couldn't we go see the Titanic yeah but the th the thing about this I I don't really want to leave it here because for us in our journey of talking about our our spirituality and coming out um with all of that is at this point we understand both sides we understand where we came from and you know when we make good mythical morning we make that show for everybody and we make that show for the people we used to be and the people we are now and hopefully the people that relate to who we're going to become later but you are the same person a human is a is a journey you know as somebody but we're not talking about this stuff on good mythical morning we're giving the gift of laugh and friendship and like that should be for everybody that's what this podcast is okay yeah and we except for this one no I like to have a full and that's why we talked about that's why we came out on ear biscuits on the podcast because it was like this that's the place that we're real and we're not just there to entertain we're just having real conversation there are certain things that you can still welcome everybody into and I mean it may not be for everybody but it shouldn't be for goodth morning not an answer there isn't one it's for more people but and what is more people and what is a lot of people and if you have a clear vision of something is that the majority of people that believe that if the majority of people are in your bubble and you don't hear or see people outside of your bubble no matter how big that bubble is am I making any sense here well I'm just saying that in the middle of it I I I lost even what I was saying yeah it's okay it's okay well it reminds me of something that happened this past weekend uh in Big Sur where link was uh you went to get that it was Mountain Valley Spring water you know it's just sort of a midlevel brand of spring water that we had oh the actual bottled uh carbonated water not the or it's not carbonated but you weren't going to a Mountain Valley Spring got he was asking if everyone wanted some and then but you had like some lro you had some other choices and you were like Mountain I've got this Mountain Valley Spring water it's not for everyone you were saying it's not for everyone because you literally meant for the people in our group it wasn't for everyone not everyone wanted it but we but I immediately said that's a great slogan for any product right right it's not for everyone and if you're trying to be for everyone you'll be for no one right and so I think that while GMM is it is Broad but that's what Howe was saying was that America's Got talents for everyone it is see so he's trying to be for everyone but it's not for everyone it's for as many people as it can be but it can't but the goal the goal is everyone it really is I I don't think we'll achieve it I don't think we'll even come close to it oh yeah I'm just saying it's not possible Right but but you individually you individually you can be a part of something that is for everyone but you can only be for whoever but as fellow people in this business we want to be for absolutely everyone that would be a goal we also are are aware that that is going to never happen that's impossible but as wide a range of audience as you can I don't disagree but as as someone who is performance- driven if you're familiar with the inag personality test I'm a three which means like an achiever somebody who's trying to like find their self worth in performance and external externally focused when you find out that somebody doesn't like you that's a real problem right for somebody with my a lot a lot of us in this business right uh but I think that one of the one of the great things about getting older and getting a little perspective and honestly like getting a level of success that it's like things could kind of not work now and it wouldn't really matter that much you don't you're not as hungry as you were 15 years ago or whatever um but I think that like seeing there's somebody who doesn't like me who said this very specific thing it might be they don't like the way I look they don't like the way I talk they don't like the way I think whatever people pick favorites between us all the time because we're a Duo and that's what people naturally do like I've finally it's been it's been a lot of work a lot of therapy but getting to a place where it's like well of course there are people who don't like me of course should my response to that shouldn't be well what can I change in order to get that person to like me or just just listened to me for years that person that person is that's not worth my energy trying to get that person to like me like what is the the point are you hurt by comments um there's still an occasional one I think the ones that hurt are the ones that you're like yeah that's probably true right like if you're like ah this ah this thing that you guys did wasn't as funny as you thought it was we're like ah yeah so if it feels like something we might say to each other that those are the ones that you should have my mom go to bat for you in the comment section that's what she does for me yeah she writes back anything that they say negative say anything negative about me my mom is in the comment section like you do not say that about my daughter the thing about it is it bothers me and we do read our comments but feel free to continue to comment and subscribe and and and my mom will answer you and you'll talk to my wife and her mom but but that being said I'm also fascinated by What It Takes cuz I could not do that I could not I don't have whatever that is that makes you type or text or comment me something really negative and hurtful and I find in our business and our business being being any kind of public figure even if it's not in a comment it gives people a license to act like you don't like not like how I was brought up and not you know my mom always taught me if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all well I think the reason that you don't say it and a lot of us in this business don't criticize other people um number one you're really busy it takes time number two you're making stuff so I think when you create things when you're actually bringing things into the world that are being regularly critiqued and analyzed by an audience you know how it feels and uh I think most of the people whose online personality is defined by criticizing other people they're not making [ __ ] except I'm saying that and I know I'm going to get killed now because I'm also paid uh well to be a judge where I have to go that didn't work that is not going to win the million dollars that's but that's the whole point of the show it is and they want me to say what I think and I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings and I always follow that up with just because I'm not responding to it and just because I didn't like it doesn't mean America is not going to vote for it you're not going to be hugely successful because we realize that no matter how big you are how many followers you have there's always way more people in the world existing that will never even hear your name will never even click on you will never turn you on so it doesn't really matter what my thoughts are I really don't matter I only matter to a few people but you know what really matters is that you guys showed up for this I'm I'm I'm so bowled over by even this conversation I'm so much you're so much more than I even thought you were I'm a fan of everything you do I love what is the weirdest thing and this is a bad turn but what's the weirdest thing that you ever put in your mouth like you guys do that eating that that that have you ever seen that weird Fallon uh usually we've never had a sexual encounter just just to say that I'm not talking about pennis um oh I'm talking about what they do if you and I thought every bile cheesecake I mean if we're going to eat something really gross it's we we've hired a chef to make it like our mythical kitchen makes the worst things in the most amazing way have you ever gotten sick um surprisingly well I chugged a liter of vinegar and you shouldn't do that the weirdest thing you put in your mouth stupid 100-year-old coconut oh yeah who saving a coconut for a 100 years it was canned coconut two people did it for 50 years each they they sell it on eBay so we we buy all these old food all this old stuff on eBay and just fascinating you know you pay $100 for this thing and I just you know it was seemed like it would be fun to I didn't swallow it but I I me there could have been botulism there's all kinds of things that yeah you could have died it was an impulsive decision I know so I've watched that and that's the question the question that I had was they have these tastes of icky stuff and that's been one of their we eat a lot of stuff they do and I thought just like you could you could die I also like I mean there's things that you've put in your mouth that could actually kill you I mean it's it's beyond funny I probably wouldn't do that again at you I did not do that I wouldn't yeah um yeah now that you're not so religious you figure you're not safe like man I think this might be over when I die this is stretch this out as much as I can yeah you guys are great uh GMM is the is the main show that I'm aware I have a good myth mythical morning every on YouTube and you guys shoot that every day and then you have like this after show five days a week and then there's yeah there's good mythical moas you can just click over and so you can spend like 40 minutes with us every the thing that we're most excited about creatively right now uh that so we're going to talk it up is we actually rekindled the OG rtin Link channel the channel that started in 2006 we it's gone through different iterations but we've we kind of stopped playing the hey let's go across town and Pitch somebody on a show or let's write a screenplay and we said let's take all these creative ideas that we've been having let's just put them directly into content on YouTube so we've we've done about six videos so far this year we're getting about one a month so Jeremy put the link you'll give us the link the link will be down below yeah so that's just basically youtube.com/ WR link so that's the original Channel each video is a standalone Odyssey into a seemingly mundane premise that will surprise you with some yeah I also some weirdness heard from the guys in the back that you recently sold smos is that true yes so yeah back I'll make the long story short we had a strange opportunity when things sort of fell apart for them they were owned by a different company uh and then years ago we were we were trying to give them a place to just do their business but ended up being this incredible opportunity for us to buy them and kind of uh let Ian who was in charge of smos continue to retain you know control uh and then Anthony because they were a longtime internet Duo Ian and Anthony go way back you know even before us we had him on he was telling us that story and so they got back together and said that they wanted smos back and we were like well we we only did this to begin with to help you guys out because we loved you guys and we believed in what you're doing so yeah let's work out a deal and so that closed a couple months ago so you also have this thing where you develop you have like this $5 million is that a fund and you get these two you just launched there's these two girls that the sorry girls yes fellow Canadians yes yes a lot of interior design it's like uh HDTV for yeah well the whole point we call the mythical accelerator is essentially uh investing in a Creator who wants to build a company similar to the one that we've built right they they have they want to kind of leave a legacy they want to build a media company so we give them some money to get some equity in their business and then we give them the advice and all the lessons that we've learned over the time we have a team that's committed to that and kind of work them through all those business decisions uh we've got three people in that program now and we're very slowly in very particular about how we expand but it's a pretty small sort of Boutique thing that's wonderful so uh whatever links that he has mentioned are down below but don't miss them these guys you're really a joy and you're really uh well thank you how interesting and I'm glad that you guys worked out a lot of the problems that were very evident and now they seem to have beginning of this conversation I mean I think we solved thank you don't you feel like we've done something it's not just a podcast I think this was like a this like therapy there's a full Arc there's a full Arc are you still tired is the real question no you guys woke me up she was up all night with her daughter yes her daughter wasn't feeling well yes her daughter has syphilis again anyway yeah well again yeah yeah well you know preschool it's crazy anyway uh subscribe and uh I was my hamster I was up all night with my hamster with your hamster that's what she call your hamster yes anyway until next time R link thanks for having us thank you woohoo that was great was fun that was fun you guys are great really deeper than I ever thought you never know man no but that was great really interesting