Healthy Indoor Air Quality: Smart Strategies for Homes

[00:00:01]all right well i want to welcome everyone to healthy indoor air guidelines with smart strategies to do it this course is brought to you by the green home institute the green home institute is a non-profit with a mission to empower people to make healthier and more sustainable choices in the renovation and construction of the places we live today i will be your moderator my name is brett little and i am the program manager here at the green home institute as always our courses are approved for multiple continuing education units among them uh is our own certified green home professional designation which is one too many little logos there but just look at the help one down here uh it is approved under the health category and then also under aia health welfare and safety which may make it applicable to your state-based design or contractor license now before we get into it you know we always need to give a shout out to the some of the cool things all of our members are doing and so eco achievers here one of our lead green raider members long time friends of ghi uh were part of two projects not one but two projects that just recently won the 2022 lead for homes awards these are two awesome projects one of them down in mexico platinum certified and now lead zero certified and then the second one the newman residence was the first lead v41 uh certified project in chicago uh and it's uh not new construction but it was renovation so you know we can we can transform our existing homes we can't we don't just have to build new homes so very exciting work and you know you can become a member at greenhomeinstitute.com become a member we'll share your stories um our members are always doing fantastic things and we want to learn what you're up to and share those stories and you get instant access to all of our webinars and discounts on paid trainings and green building certifications now before we get into it we want to thank one of our top tier sponsors of this session who allow us to do what we do build equinox featuring the serve 2. so what we're talking about is fresh air ventilation delivered when you need it not over ventilating not under ventilating like traditional ventilation systems but when pollution is detected these systems detect that pollution in the house they ramp up to exhaust it in a very energy efficient manner using a built-in heat pump to make it super comfortable and ensuring that the air is fresh and it's got recirculation uh filtration uh and again it's only ventilating as needed built right here in the midwest uh in urbana illinois uh in a factory powered by solar energy so what more could you ask for uh we'll hear a little bit more about them later and they have one thing a geo boost feature and so you want to make sure to check out our second tier sponsor here entertech and they've got two great products geocomfort or the hydron module and so that works again paired with the build equinox or of course a standalone geothermal is the most energy efficient heat pump system you can get on the planet still to this day ground source heat pump using the temperature and heating and cooling of the earth and it can even keep water uh and so these systems really great for large-scale multi-family commercial projects community development projects and they've still got the tax credits available um as well all right so uh again welcome to uh healthy indoor air guidelines with smart strategies to do it before we get into it i just want to remind everybody from a lead standpoint on what we're going to be talking about today and where it fits in with leed certification is that first we have a lead bdnc v4 as well as lead residential v 4.1 we have a requirement for ventilation it's always been a requirement and there's a bunch of standalone local ventilation which can be handled with the systems we're going to be talking about today however we're looking mostly right now at the whole house mechanical ventilation which is requiring that at the bare minimum compliance with ashrae 62.2 2010. so basically what that means uh for those of you who don't know what that is is think of it this way you've got a home a certain square footage and then you have a number of bedrooms which usually dictates the occupants of the home from there you need to have this percentage of fresh air ventilation delivered to the house continuously or intermittently to keep people healthy and that can be done in a number of ways but doing it with a smart ventilation system is going to be the best way to do it so that's clearly using smart ventilations is going to blow this standard you know out of the water for for compliance with lead v4 and then lead v 4.1 which complies with ashrae 62.2 2016 which we'll talk about a little bit later now if you want to start picking up lead points here's where these smart ventilation systems fit in under the enhanced ventilation section first you've got uh the ability to use controls and the controls we're going to talk about today go way beyond what's what we're looking for here but at the very least you're talking about a humidistat control that senses humidity in the air and then reacts accordingly to ventilate that humidity as needed so it doesn't over humidify the house and then second is enhanced whole house ventilation so again if you're going to install a smart ventilation system you're going to want to make sure it's tested and it's flowing at the rate that you need it to be and so that's where this enhanced whole house ventilation credit comes in and is ensuring again when you have these ventilation systems set up that they're within the standard that uh lead is requiring um uh based on testing that it was installed on properly now for our green star homes program if you're following that we go even further we're requiring balanced fresh air systems that are installed and tested to hit the requirements of ideally ashrae 62.2 2016 though we also allow smart systems to circumvent this ruling for the gold level anyway and then for the platinum level we actually are mandating one of two choices obviously if you can do both which we're going to talk about today being the best so either you have an erv or hrv uh in the house uh in compliance with 62 to 2016 or 19 or you have a smart system in the house it may not be it may not have recovery but you have a smart system in the house that detects air quality and ramps up to ventilate as needed or like i said we're going to talk about a system that can do both today which can earn you an additional air quality badge within the green star program so that's enough for me i'm ex uh super excited to introduce um uh uh victor uh nino from build equinox a business development manager there to talk a little bit about all of this today and this is his second time on the show so i'm super excited to have you back here victor and certainly build equinox and our friend ty newell who's hanging out is no stranger to our show and our events so it's always good to be talking with all of you and have you back out and victor i will now hand it off to you and please take it away thank you brett and thank you everybody for attending this uh webinar i appreciate your time uh yeah so um today basically the topic is healthy indoor air quality guidelines and we want to discuss more about how to reach a healthy home and then the different ways how can we approach that with basically air conditioning processes and smart ventilation processes uh yes my name is victor nino director of the business development at build equinox the outline is more into the basic understanding of indoor air quality i will start with just defining what is a smart system how we why we call it a smart system then we want to discuss more about what are the type of pollutants the effect on health and then how we want to achieve the healthy indoor air quality now that we know what what to address and it's basically three steps monitoring pollutants healthy indoor air quality guidelines basically we want to compare to some numbers and then we discuss more about the mechanisms to reduce the pollutants at the end of this presentation we want to discuss more in depth about the sustainability and cost of health and basically have a very big difference between why we're talking about minimum standards on ventilation and what are the type of healthy standards that we recommend so a smart system so i want to start is basically where we when i say we know comfort is you and basically all the audience bread me we know comfort we know how we make ourselves comfortable this is a chart of the psychometric chart where we put the temperature in the bottom humidity ratio in the in the vertical and basically we could describe any place in the world in here if it's a summer if it's winter and then we can define air conditioning processes to go through this chart um so when we are hot usually when there is a hot humid day during the summer we want to be basically in what we call it the summer comfort zone right right right about 78 degrees fahrenheit maybe a humidity lower than 60 or 50 percent that's what we want to go and and and we can basically change our or clothing we can open windows or or close windows if it's too hot outside uh and then turn on the air conditioning and the same with a winter if it's too cold we want to be more into the winter comfort zone it's a little bit lower temperature maybe 68 70 degrees fahrenheit with some humidity and then that's the area that we want to be uh that so basically how and we are ready we dress up appropriately we open windows close windows turn on the air conditioning and so on so that's basically what we do there is a feedback there so first of all nowadays we use a comfort sensor that is a thermostat typically then we compare to some comfort levels so we put we set up those comfort levels to something that we like or our family likes and then if it's outside the comfort level then we ask the hvac or air conditioning system or heater to do something so during the summer it will be cooling during the winter will be heating and when there we are inside the comfort that's where we do nothing we here is where we are saving energy that's basically the the smart system look where there is a input signal that is basically the comfort level those are the numbers that we want to reach there is a control variable that we put a monitor in the place we want to control and then there is this controller that is going gonna make the decisions if it's outside the comfort then it will basically provide a signal to the hvac that it will be the control device and then that's this is when we talk about smart system there is always this feedback there is this feedback and a canonica yeah variable that is going to tell provide those numbers or basically a signal to provide to this controller that is going to make to make the hvac to do something or save the energy when it's already uh within the comfort this is smart or basically this control system that's what we want to do also and why in indoor air quality and why is because unfortunately we cannot notice an unhealthy indoor air quality and when i talk about unhealthy when i talk about indoor air qualities basically we're talking about three major things gases gases contaminants tiny particles and germs basically that's so we that's what we the things that we want to basically watch for and there are always a wide range of range of characteristics they could be odorless or they could be noxious noxious we can sense and we can do something but most of them are orderless they're invisible and they are visible visible like uh like a smoke we can do something we can react through or or senses and there are some of them that they are harmless or lethal and one perfect example is carbon monoxide that is odorless invisible elephant so we cannot notice what is the amount of carbon monoxide so we are relying on monitors so basically then to to do a to maintain a healthy indoor quality we want to monitor the pollutants we want to compare those pollutants to this maximum allow concentration and then if it's a high concentration then we need to ask an air conditioning system a ventilation system something to reduce those uh pollutant levels and if it's low concentration that's where we are saving energy so this is what we what brett was saying we're not gonna we're not gonna over ventilate or under ventilate we're just gonna mentally appropriate when it's needed so when we talk about indoor pollutants what are the type of pollutants that we are breathing that they are that we can find in our homes so this chart basically has a particle size in the bottom so it goes from basically one millimeter in the right side to basically microscopic to basically molecular level and then i'm going to put here kind of like as a reference human hair so human hair is about 50 to 70 microns the diameter and then we can start with the dust so there are things that we can see the heavy dust the setting in dust but now there are some other type of dust the the especially the suspended atmospheric dust that is basically in the microscopy level that we cannot see similar with particle contaminants so we are talking about particles here basically that it has a some diameter of particles we have ashes some of them we can see then everything that is going and moving towards the left are more into the microscopic level smoke smoke tobacco smoke and soot those are the ones that now the particle size becomes so so small into the 0.1 microns that we are not able to see then we have also the biological contaminants pollen some particles of pollen we can see then when we go to mold spores house dust mites cut allergens bacteria they're becoming smaller and smaller where viruses are basically at the end of the spectrum of particles where basically they are suspended they are airborne and we are not able to see so we need to start thinking about this type of particles and how to detect them then we have on the kind of like in the gas side basically the gaseous contaminants we have the carbon dioxide carbon monoxide the carbon dioxide is more from a human generator but also from combustion carbon monoxide is definitely from combustion that other gases from combustion like nitrogen oxides etc radon is something that we want to also watch and also as well the ground source awesome we want to watch those gas contaminants and then we also finally have these volatile organic compounds and volatile organic compounds is basically complex molecules based carbon based that some of them are human generated like with things that we eat basically when we do exercise we also not only we exert a carbon dioxide but also we we generate some uh gases as well uh from combustion like when we cook and we generate a lot of uh gases as well from building materials from cleaning products and from cosmetics so there is a basically all this we want to watch all these that basically gases that there are contaminants that when they have high concentrations it be little or or unhealthy and then also particles as well and regardless so what we know and a mention that there is a very good indoor air quality videos in the youtube channel for for green home institute this is what we know we spend considerable time indoors somebody mentioned about 90 of our time pollutant levels indoors are usually higher than outside and is about two to times two to five times higher than typical outdoor concentrations and the effects on human health we are annoying some of them are basically bad others that we just want to get rid of them but there are some of them that the ones that we are they are invisible and we cannot detect it could create irritation headaches allergies asthma some of them could create yeah basically very serious problems there are some contiguous airborne diseases that we want to also avoid and then there are long-term effects if we are exposed for a very long time with high concentrations equities actually go and create and provide a yes cause cancer respiratory diseases and in general debilitating well-being and i want to have a little bit regarding particle deposition in lungs and i i love this picture is because it's it's a it's it's providing how uh the human we we we actually can't react for some things and or basically our organism is able to reject some of them but then the smaller the particle the the deeper it could go to your lungs and it makes sense it's just basically a particle that is so small acts like a gas and then we're breathing all these gases with oxygen but this is more particulates and it could go as as low as as deep as reaching their pulmonary alveoli sorry so this exposure to fine particles it could create coughing and wheezing shortness of breath asthma attacks cardiovascular effects including heart attacks heart failure and strokes and the reduced lung development in children because the smaller they are actually they can go through actually or or um for blood cells as well of course we're talking about a type of of pollutants we also talk about concentrations but also it's important to know the exposure time exposure time and the age and health conditions of the of the people this is all part of of how sick you you can become so so how we want to achieve healthy indoor air quality so we mentioned that in a smart system we have to start monitoring pollutants and that's what i want to discuss a little bit more so the question is what can we measure affordably so yes we can there are basically companies that they have very expensive equipment they can go to your home and then put those devices around the home but now a technology is giving us the opportunity to have these measurements affordably so what can we do so we cannot just go specifically on some of them but the ones that they are immediately health threatening gases like radon or carbon monoxide we know that there are monitors that they can that are exclusively measuring that now carbon dioxide you are now we're getting familiar that now there is a common to to to see a commercial available in carbon dioxide monitors and then also there are now some monitoring uh monitoring systems that they can do volatile organic compounds we don't know which type of monitor or volatile organic compounds is basically it's just a sensor that reacts to most of the chemicals but at least is helping us to understand that there is some concentration of of these gas contaminants in the house and so on and and this is more related to gases from uh from a particle side we also are starting to see more a more regularly or more commercially available particulate matter sensors so we know about pm10 means particle matter 10 of 10 microns so that means that it could detect a particle that they are 10 microns or lower but you can also find a in the commercially available pm 2.5 i think it does the most common one uh that is a 2.5 microns or lower the particulates and a particular matter one that is basically lower than one microns uh so innovation is making sensors more effort affordable and accurate so uh one of the major recommendations that we have is basically every species should measure at least carbon dioxide and volatile organic compounds accurate but now you can start to see the sensors that they are going measuring particle not not only in the weight side but also a particle count as low as 10.1 that means 0.1 microns and lower they could they could actually sense those type of particulates so regarding particulate size matters yeah so as we know the the smaller the deeper you go into the lungs now we have some uh sensors that we can afford and that it could help us to detect those particular sizes as well um so what is the recommended approach for particulate so we have to be a little bit careful about what are we measuring so and it has to do with that with the with the size of the uh of that so for example here i'm just making um a human hair just imagine that we are using a microscope and we're looking at the diameter of the human hair so when you're talking about a a 10 and 10 micron a particulate it will be that would be the relative size and if you go smaller and smaller then yes the particle size that that goes into your lungs are are are basically invisible microscopic and so we want to understand is how to measure that so we want to measure it by weight so if we measure it by way the problem is that we are measuring the bigger particles so we want to have is basically two type of measures and here is an example we want to measure it by weight but we also want to measure it by just particle counts and it sounds a little bit kind of like uh too much but now the uh the monitoring systems of the monitoring sorry the pollutant monitors are starting to have that capability of measuring particle yeah the number of particles through some sensors that can can do that so and this is an example and this is just to show a little bit uh if you guys see my cursor this is about a this is our 10 particles of a size of five micrometers microns sorry microns uh it weights about 0.7 around 0.7 micrograms per cubic meter that's basically the reading that we got from uh from our monitors so that way it's about i'm sorry yes it weights this is the number of particles about 10 particles it will be weighting about 3.5 micrograms per cubic meter but if you go to the other side about 0.1 microns about 80 000 of a micron of particles of 0.1 micrometers it will only weight 0.01 so that's the the i hope i'm trying to explain it very well but it's basically it's just thousands of particles of very very small diameter could weigh uh as as as much or not even one big particle so that's why we need to have these two type of sensors one sensor that is a more of a particle mass dominated that it measured weight that we we want to weight we want to measure uh the weight of the big particles but we also want to count the smaller particles we want to so the one that they are extremely extremely small those are the ones that we need to have a sensor that help us count uh the number of particles just to to put those levels and the reason we are doing that is to start measuring basically quantifying the number the the pollution concentration and then to start doing something about it so our recommendation for monitoring pollutants constantly we have basically four four monitors we wanna we recommend to measure carbon dioxide basically that it tells you the amount of people inside maybe there is some combustion they're cooking and so on there is also the volatile organic compounds they help us to measure some gases that comes from basically it could be from combustion from from materials from from your furniture from other places we also want to measure the weight of the particles the particles that are suspended in the basically in the indoor air we want to measure it by weight and also to make sure that we are that we are capturing the really really tiny particles we want to also have a sensor that counts those particles and as i mentioned those are available commercially additional considerations yes and this is basically part of your everyday when when you are when you have your own home it's basically yeah if you have fewer base appliances you should have a carbon monoxide sensor uh to make sure that we keep those a level and then check periodically and rate on sensor a radon sorry with a radon sensor so and then if the radon levels are too high then that's where you install maybe a radar mitigation system so now we wanna now we now that we have the monitors and now uh uh and basically the the the the point here is that we are finding these monitors uh that we can find a commercially available now we wanna define kind of like what are the maximum levels that we want to compare it to to basically see if we want to do something or not so that's basically uh yeah we want to define those maximum allow concentrations so first of all we want to start with what are the benefits of being fresh air so we want to have fresh clean filtered air inside our homes first of all is because it increases our lungs it has a lot of oxygen provide oxygen to our brain and help us to to think better and it generally makes us happier so we want to bring that fresh air in an energy conscious way and the air outside hopefully will have the usually the the uh the concentration of carbon dioxide is around 400 particles per million and very little gas contaminants hopefully and particle matter and i'll talk a little bit more about that so that's the fresh air that we want inside our homes or close to that and we know that the benefits of the fresh air is not only from a health point of view but also from a cognition you help us to think better our sleep quality we can sleep better with fresh air inside our homes and also help us to to be productive to accomplish more especially when we're working from home so the healthy indoor air quality standards that we are recommending is carbon dioxide we want to keep that below 800 ppm or particles per per million the volatile organic compounds we want to keep that below 125 parts parts per billion sorry ppb is parts per billion ppm is parts per million and total mass of all particulates that they are 10 micrograms and smaller we want to have it less than 10 micrograms per meter per cubic meter and the total count of all particulates that are basically 0.3 micrometers or greater we want to keep it about 40 000 particles per liter so those are the four numbers that we recommend so where those numbers came from is basically based on literature or on experimental research we know that improves health is they are practical and achievable uh this is why we were recommending those it reduce sickness improve our productivity and it can be achieved in an energy efficient matter and the way is basically using this smart control system additional considerations we want to and this is more related to the epa recommendations that is basically the carbon monoxide nine parts per million and the rate on a four pq liters pq uh curies per liter those are the ones that we want to keep uh keep the low and definitely exposure time becomes important when higher than those values uh but those are the numbers right now that we are just recommending based on literature and experimental research now one one thing about a carbon dioxide and why we want to keep it below 800 parts per million there is extensive research about the impact of pollutants on health cognition and sleep quality and productivity there are four papers that we that we usually refer to that it basically provides that basis and and in in general uh based on on experience based on experiments that's what we are we also attest to those numbers basically 800 ppm but it's basically yes many researchers and universities have found that when you start increasing ventilation you get into this level of of of carbon dioxide of 800 ppm that it becomes a brighter and the health are better conditions and so on and this is a perfect example where uh i don't know if you guys are familiar with this chart but it's basically this is a chart where they were a survey of uh different people and understanding what is the impact of carbon dioxide for the in the cognitive performance so they measure many activities related uh to the cognitive side basically how focused you are how you uh um analyze the information what is the basically strategy how you strategize with with levels of carbon dioxide so when here is basically very simple when when when the carbon dioxide is is pretty high 2500 parts per million definitely there is a a problem in pairs initiative information approach strategy you you cannot think that much uh but then when you start definitely uh reducing the the carbon dioxide to closer to 600 ppm basically closer to a fresh air outside that's where you're starting to see better levels of of a better levels in the cognition side as well notes about volatile organic compounds sorry about the the error there uh today's ventilation standards do not specify boc levels the the gas contaminants first of all we generate we're on a contaminants uh basically yeah we generate about 2400 milligrams per hour of volatile organic compounds depends on the people depends on how the type of food we eat the depends also on the metabolism and the exercise and so on uh both carbon dioxide and volatile organic compounds are proportional to metabolism levels so you if there is nothing there is no cooking there is nothing uh other generation you will see when when the carbon dioxide increases the volatile organic compounds also will increase that depends on the people the amount of people but also depends on on the metabolism of the people there and so on there are also studies that voc's impaired productivity the same studies that i pointed out also impairs productivity the great sleep same of carbon dioxide and the maximum levels of volatile organic compounds that we recommend they are associated to the human the i'm sorry to the human generated carbon dioxide that a that we recommend so basically if um when when the carbon dioxide reaches 800 ppm there is this level of volatile organic compounds human generator that also reaches that's the one the number that we are recommending around between between 75 and 125 parts per billion but we recommend 125 parts per billion as kind of like the the the threshold for your your ventilation system or your uh to do something about it other source of volatile organic compounds is basically cooking and gas combustion wood combustion fuel combustion in furnace and water heater and others like uh your your furniture if it's new you might have some some volatile organic compounds that comes because of the process the manufacturing process the cleaning cleaning supplies and also cosmetics will have those volatile organic compounds that we want to get rid of we don't want to have that high concentration and that's the number that we recommend and about particles i mentioned a studies several studies have shown that the impact of the amount of particles especially the fine particles that we don't cannot detect on cancer stroke heart attack dimension respiratory afflictions and they have seen that when they those levels are reduced uh then it will improve those those uh health conditions however there is no lawsuit limit we haven't found a defining number of particles remember that we want to count also the particles in the u.s environmental protection agency provides a pm 2.5 about 12 to 15 micrograms per meter a cubic cubic meter and we just recommend to measure both mass and total particle count pm to keep it below 10 micrograms per meter a cubic it's a little more stringent of what the uspa is suggesting and the particle count and we want to keep that with 40 000 particles per liter that is some somewhat practical so right now those are the four numbers that we are recommending 800 and we are continuing with research to do more more analysis and and understand more about those but for for now we want to recommend 800 for sure that's carbon dioxide less than 800 ppm volatile organic compounds we want to keep it below 125 ppb parts per billion that's the number that is correlated to a basically human generated so anything higher than that means that there is combustion or there is something else that is creating that those gases the total mass of particulates 10 grams and smaller has to be less than 10 milligrams per per cubic meter and then the total count of the particulate they are very very small has to be less than 40 000 particles per liter uh those numbers i mentioned they are based on literature and experimental research and additional considerations of course the the major uh gases that they are lethal that it could be their carbon monoxide also we have to watch that uh with with some monitoring systems um okay so now what we what we are saying is basically we want to do this in a in basically following the same approach that we we do comfort we need to monitor uh pollutants uh we want to compare with some numbers that we just provide and then we want to do something so what are the type of mechanisms to reduce pollutants so we want to basically yes so we we want to if it's high concentration we want to basically reduce those pollutant levels so how we want to do that so we first of all we want to understand what is the source maybe we want to control that source that would be a way to do that we want to do ventilation basically the illusion of using the dilution bringing some fresh air to mix it with the steel air inside we want to do filtration and micro deactivation to take care of the one the basically the biological agents so our recommendation is that the most effective system is the one that used them all so it's not one over the other one we want to do all these four uh basically processes at the same time so your your system needs to do all this for to to guarantee an indoor a healthy indoor air quality with monitoring pollutants so source control i think we are understanding the the the easy explanation is basically yes don't don't do the contaminate the pollution inside like for example no yeah prohibit smoking in your home inside your home uh one major thing about uh electrification that we really like is also that helps to remove those contaminants created by a combustion so everything related to gas water heater furnace the gas stove generates because they're running with combustion it generates all these gases volatile organic compounds particulate matter as well so we want when we get rid of that and then we move to uh to heat pump water heaters heat pump for space heating and cooling and electric stove we are basically yeah removing that a source uh on site um we improve a safety by because yeah there is no carbon monoxide mix and then and then we know the the also this is part of of having access to this clean electric energy solar energy or or renewable energy as well ventilation the purpose of ventilation is basically to bring outdoor air that with we know or that we think it is uh uh with low concentrations outside to basically dilute the indoor contaminants uh it works for gas contaminants carbon carbon dioxide volatile organic compounds carbon monoxide radon etc particulates also works for particles particles the particular continent contaminants sorry and biological particles as well so we have three types i think you guys are very familiar with the infiltration exfiltration and those little gaps that homes have uh that we want to close but those that's part of the ventilation we also have natural ventilation when in some areas in the country where where where it's always outside nice outside unfortunately i live in wisconsin we usually keep the the doors closed until the windows closed the doors closed uh mostly most of the year because of the winter and hot summers but then we are going to rely more on mechanical ventilation basically have a fan that help us to bring that fresh air inside for the dilution basically the filtration is the removal of contaminants from the air is this is more for particles particles contaminants and biological particles there is a removable efficiency that we want to basically watch for and it's basically the removal efficiency is basically what is the concentration before the filter where is the the concentration after the filter and that's how you calculate basically the removal efficiency uh ashrae has a this designation of the merv you hear a lot about mere filters basically the minimum efficiency reporting values um and the way the future do the removal is basically uh they're there are a few few mechanisms how the filter removes first one the ones that we understand easier is basically you have a filter basically you have a physical uh wall for the particles so there are some particles that will basically impact and stay there and here the graph is basically showing um the basically the efficiency the efficiency of a filter for this big particle so when when you have a very dense filter basically is really effective for big particles but then you start reducing the efficiency when a through impacted interception when when the particles are smaller and the reason is basically yeah a very small particle can go through uh if if it's a really small particle you can go through the future one phenomena that it's harder to understand is the diffusion side and the diffusion side this is more into the microscopic level the basically the diffusion is the movement of particles from high to low concentration and and this is a picture that basically help us to visualize like when you put a for example a dye in water uh you start seeing the high concentration at the beginning but then due to diffusion those uh molecules are gonna move and then they're gonna basically uh diffuse basically yes it's gonna go from high concentration to low concentration until basically the concentration is it's constant everywhere else so that's the process of diffusion in filters that phenomena also happens the diffusion happens when now the the particles are smaller the smaller they are they defeat the the diffusion effect happens as well and that's where actually so the the filtering efficiency is efficient for the high particle levels i'm sorry for the for the big size particles but also uh depending on the filter it could be also very good at the lower uh particle levels so this is why you're starting to hear recommendations uh there are other mechanisms to do the the friction removal there are some of them that it depends on it's an electrostatic attraction when you set up a different charge and though it will attract those particles but in general the the features that we are familiar with that is basically the mer uh yes the the filters that are merged 13 14 15 or 12 or 11 they have different removal efficiencies that are but they are effective at high levels but also effective at low levels answering at low particle sizes due to the effect of diffusion and and we are interested in that is because the viruses the viruses sorry and the suit are into that lower level and just uh last year the azure epidemic task force for example recommends a mere 13 or higher is due to this type of studies microbe deactivation we recommend ultraviolet germ beside irradiation filters basically they are they have been used in hospitals and laboratories for this infection for many many years now they are affordable we can buy those and then install them it has a shortwave ultraviolet light that basically inactivates the the biological contaminants and um it could be an add-on so this one do not remove particle contaminants but it's but basically deactivate the dna of of the biological contaminants basically clean them there are now lead lamps we want basically the these devices do not that do not generate uh awesome production so those are the ones that we want to install so when we talk about recommendations for healthy buildings and homes we talk about basically those three things so first ventilation ventilation we want to target 40 cfm cfm cubic feet per minute per person that we found out through through calculations and research that's equivalent to reaching healthy levels of 800 ppm uh of carbon dioxide so those are the the numbers that we to er that we recommend for ventilation for air filtration uh based on on studies based on the ashrae uh epidemic task force mer13 or higher we want to also use that filtration we we just show that it's effective not only for big particles but for really really small particles as well we want to have a very good air recirculation and we want to also recommend that for not only for recirculation but for fresh air coming in and i will explain that a little bit better an air purification so there are some uh there are some viruses and other biological agents that might not be removed completely through all this ventilation and infiltration so we want to also basically kill them basically we want to deactivate them with this ultraviolet genocidal irradiation as well so that's basically or the recipe for healthy and healthy buildings the healthy part is basically we want to use ventilation that is basically this dilution of gas and contaminants particulates and microbes we improve we know through research that improves cognition productivity and sleep we want to do air filtration that is basically this removal of particulates that is going to reduce these respiratory and cardiovascular diseases and then we also want to add air purification that is more related to micro deactivation basically kill the biological agents to minimize the probability of infection that's basically the the three processes that we recommend for for for to to maintain a healthy home and a healthy and safe space and this is an example it's basically a balance of those three and and this is basically a quick calculation so if we want to have a how much the fractions of microbes let's think about the micro like the flu virus or or so on we have the basically the we're using the three is basically the three efficiencies together so we have a a fraction basically a fraction removed from ventilation of 50 percent a filter that is helping to remove these microbes about 90 and the ultraviolet killing basically about 85 then if you put them all together basically these three processes will be about 99.3 of microbes removed so we can do the same calculations for for example just the the combustion particles uh with ventilation and infiltration and so on um notes about outside fresh air yeah so outside air is not always fresh it depends on where are you located um there might be some industries closed there might be a heavy traffic close to you and now we're seeing all these uh fires uh in the forest that and these big clouds uh basically moving along the united states and the countries uh so the recommendations now is basically filter the outside air as well so now uh before it was not uh there was not too much attention paid on what is the type of filters that you put outside but we are now uh recommending is basically mark 13 uh to to to move those filtered answers yeah to remove those particles and avoiding that and also the smart system should have the ability to monitor the outside pollution and then close vents when high levels of pollution outside and use recirculation mode to future purify the indoor air in the meantime uh that that's something that we are uh recommending as well and we had some models about just to to demonstrate this part so this is an example where at home there there is a particle outside pretty high about 50 micrograms per per cubic meter and the indoor air generating so there are some generation as well inside and definitely a ventilated and vent unventilated house uh it's uh definitely it's uh the particles are gonna triple quadrupole so we wanna do ventilation but if we do ventilation and we appear with recirculation when we close when it's it's it's heavy too high and then we just recirculate and that's that's a better way to to uh to reduce uh particulates when outside it's uh there are a very high concentration of pollutants now let's talk a little more and now let's let's start it up together now with sustainability and cost of health so when when our recommendation is basically when designing or renovating buildings the top priority is basically achieving a healthy indoor air this is what we call the human centric design then we put limits on energy carbon emissions and cost so there are some limits so that's basically an optimization process but we need to uh basically do those in a in a very uh meaningful way uh understand what are the basically yeah the trade-offs but always thinking about healthy indoor air first and smart controls that's a way to reduce energy basically we we know that so basically now that we have a feedback that is going to help us understand what is the what is the levels of concentration we compare it to the healthy indoor air quality guidelines that we are providing today then we can just say if it's a high concentration yeah now we have to do something ventilation filtration and air purification but now when there is low concentration that's where we save the energy that we say nothing it's a healthy environment and so on because life at home is dynamic this is a a graph of a monitor in a in a bedroom of a house that is about 20 700 square foot um some seven eight changes per hour of infiltration uh no ventilation system and and and you're starting to see yeah there is high levels uh during the night when they're sleeping but the other the levels are very uh healthy but when they are not home so we want to basically use a smart ventilation system and this is a typical graph of of the the pollution levels in in in uh using a smart ventilation system basically the green the green uh the green uh bars are basically telling the the power of the ventilation so it's when it's turned on the ventilation so most of the times it's it's a the ventilation system is off uh but uh but when when the levels are starting to get high that's where the ventilation is acting so basically ventilates when needed and then uses energy only when it's needed so sustainable building design so i think we are together here just to talk about healthy indoor equality and most of us are basically concerned about the sustainability basically making the buildings more efficient more more environmentally friendly and so on so we definitely are moving beyond building codes so there are some minimum requirements that the building that the building calls have we don't want to use them we just want to go through that and that's where we use those paths for sustainable buildings like uh basically the lead the passive house there are other ones ashrae and so on they have this this type of guidelines for how to get sustainable buildings and that's and then in most of those basically they are asking us to achieve this ultra tight enclosure where um and it makes sense because that's how we reduce the energy losses that we that uh through infiltration and exfiltration so one of the things about achieving this ultra tight enclosure we are focusing on reducing the energy loss so we need to add this balanced mechanical ventilation it really needs to add it but one of the considerations that we are recommending is ventilation less than 20 cubic feet per meter per minute per minute per person that's research is showing that it might cause this sick building syndrome cognitive function decline and productivity losses so because this number or something lower than that it will start it's not enough to remove all those contaminants that will be building up when there are people at home so basically what we're saying today is basically the same as you are doing but moving away from standards from the the current building codes that your state have moving towards leads towards passive house and so on that's what we are recommending as well today we just want to move beyond those minimum standards usually the minimum standards are based on ashrae 62.2 uh that's the the the minimum standard for ventilation systems we have um we want also those are minimum requirements this is the minimum requirement we know that is not healthy but it's a minimum requirement we just want to move away from that move forward sorry uh and move beyond track and using more of a smart system just measuring the pollutants in your home and then compare to these numbers and then act basically create a system or your hvac system to do uh what it needs to do to reduce those levels so one i want to talk a little bit more about azure standard 62.2 so there is a distinction between 62.2 that is residential and 62.1 that they are all buildings i'm talking about this that is the latest version 2019.

[00:56:54]this this standard is called ventilation unacceptable indoor air quality standards is more related to dissatisfaction with respect to other and sensory irritation so it's basically something that we can perceive nothing not that we and we know that there are some other invisible other listings that we are not able to perceive it does not address the specific pollutant concentration levels and is based on constant flow and as i mentioned is other base so there is this typical equation that you will see in the in that one is basically is that the the flow rate total it's proportional to the size of your home and then you add this a coefficient that is it depends on the number of rooms of of uh yeah of bedrooms assuming that one person is sleeping in one bedroom and that plus one means that in the master bedroom there are two people uh sleeping in that bedroom so that's that's basically the the total i want to make sure it's uh this um the 2000 there is a difference between the 2010 version that's being called by lead but some of the lead i think it's version four and the version 4.1 for example it calls the the 2016 or higher 2008 and is the difference between these two numbers so 0.01 it might create a very unhealthy department the 2010 version i would say is actually the the levels are pretty low on ventilation they updated the number but for us it's still not enough on ventilation sorry brad i see your face you want me to uh wrap it up no no i just wanted to let everybody know who is here and here for the continuing ed that you are approved as of this time uh for your ceus uh took and you can go if you have to get going it is one o'clock eastern here but we have more to go to cover so we want you to stick around to hang out if you can um so we're not wrapping up we're not doing anything different just letting you all know for the folks of you who are here for your ceus and you got to get going i just wanted to let you know if you've been here the whole time uh you are approved to go but uh keep going victor so thanks thank you and a few more slides but basically yes the ashrae this is a curve of ashrae 62.2 2019 for a three bedroom four people uh and then uh when i what i want to show here is basically the concentration so the contains the concentration of carbon dioxide it's it gets higher this is for a three bedroom four people depends on the size of the house so the bigger the house the more ventilation the the the standard is going to tell you but uh for example for typical homes that are between 50 1500 2500 square foot the the levels of carbon dioxide it's it's high they are becoming and unhealthy we as i mentioned we want to be in the 800 level uh of parts per million sorry um and we have done uh basically testing this is a basically a a chart of the azure standard 62.2 2019 a certified passive house with hrv no recirculation these are acceptable constant ventilation and we see uh here's a comparison and if you see the line the red line is 800 ppm um when it's occupied there is insufficient ventilation when occupied it's not enough that ventilation is not enough to get rid of those uh pollutants that are inside here we're just measuring carbon dioxide and volatile organic compounds but when when it's when it's not occupied that's where yeah the levels are basically close to levels outside so we need to that's where we are providing this smart control basically measure pollutants uh the same as a thermostat measure something inside your home and then ask your your system to do uh to reduce the pollutants so one of the major differences and here is one uh basically what are the type of what we actually recommend as i mentioned actually is the minimum but we want to basically move beyond that to reach this healthy indoor air quality so from a maximum concentration there there is no definition of what are the maximum concentrations we pro we provide numbers carbon dioxide less than 800 parts per million or later organics compound 125 a pm10 less than 10 micrograms per square meter i'm sorry cubic meter and then the particle count and less than 48 000 particles per liter ventilation the the latest standard is assuming or basically recommending about 20 cfm per person that's the co2 is for us based on our calculations is about 1200 ppm we want to double that ventilation so we get more of the levels uh that we that we are recommending in the healthy levels and as i mentioned yeah increasing ventilation means more energy by putting a sensor inside then that energy will be basically used whenever you need it filtration the um the the latest standard they talk about mercer 11 recirculate for recirculation basically for hvac system verse 6 if you are having a some air coming out from the outside we recommend basically merging to both recirculation and fresh intake and especially in the the why the fresh intake explain it is because of uh because the pollutants especially outside my people polluted so we don't want to bring that pollution inside microbe deactivation actually doesn't say anything and we are recommending is ultraviolet germicide or irradiation and smart controls actually recommending this constant flow there is no feedback basically it's constant control all the time maybe in some of sometimes and now i think they are allowing basically to put maybe a occupancy sensor or a turn on turn off sensor but i think the best way the the most efficient way is basically monitor reduce the pollutants and when it's and with the when there is low concentration that's where we save energy and one of the additional sustainable features that we recommend and i think everybody is recommending is basically this energy recovery basically to precondition the fresh air we are bringing we are throwing out this air that it was conditioned already we want to use that energy of the air that is exhausting to precondition the air that is coming in all right so thank you so much for sticking out basically the summary is we want to watch not only gases uh we talk some people talk too much about carbon dioxide i would say that we have to watch basically all of them carbon dioxide gas contaminants tiny particles and germs all of them there is a range wide range there are some visits some of them visible some invisible other less there are some nashes uh someone that we can see someone that we that are unable to see i think we are all aware about the effects of the human health of high concentrations um but then now the the uh technology is is making is helping us to to measure and detect those pollutants affordably so they are now commercially available you can now start measuring and understanding how your your home is based on those levels we provide uh some guidelines on on the numbers of carbon dioxide uh volatile organic compounds particulates as i mentioned the very distinction between weight and particle count we recommend both and don't choose only one ventilation i'm sorry one process we have to use them all because basically those three are interacting and and basically uh creating more efficiency on removing all the uh the pollutants inside and smart control basically is the way to go from our point of view is basically and it makes sense it's exactly the same principle that we use for for thermal comfort measuring a temperature we want to measure pollutants and then react when the high concentration and for sustainable building design so there is path for sustainable buildings usually there all those uh like fields live uh ashrae they they move ahead from uh far away from building codes that's what we are telling them move away from and move forward add more ventilation add better filtration than the minimum requirements to achieve this healthy indoor air quality guidance and no use one one thing basically we think that maybe one ventilation system it will be enough we have to use the three ventilation air filtration and air purification thank you so much for sticking out and uh and yeah and attending this webinar now uh brett you you will need i think in the next one is basically more about a question uh questions and answers if i'm able yeah yeah thank you so much victor and everyone for sticking around please continue to hang out with us a little bit longer here can you see my screen now victor uh yeah let yes okay great yeah so just real quick as a reminder if you want to re-watch this session or share it or catch the rest of it if you can't stick around the whole time you can access it on our youtube channel go there and subscribe and you'll get an instant update um if you are watching this in the future on demand not right now go ahead uh to the thinkific platform uh down in the youtube comments or to our usgbt channel take your quiz get an 80 passing rate and you will pick up your certificate but if you are watching live with us here you don't need to take a quiz don't get all nervous on me now i know you get a little scared if we're testing you you are good to go if you've been here search goonbergstarts.com market is safe and you'll get your um certificates and yeah we got a lot of questions coming in and i want to get to those questions and before we do just a huge thanks to our board of directors our volunteers our executive director jose uh reyna and all of our top tier sponsors who allow us to do what we do mitsubishi green april air build equinox and many others who allow us to do these webinars and support our work um so yeah we're going to get into some very sort of general questions and then we're going to hand it back over to victor for a sort of after session session to really get into the details of the products available through build equinox and how they can help you and your clients live healthier which is why we're why we're here so um yeah i'm uh looking through uh some of the a lot of chat going on and ty's been really helpful there so i'm just trying to find some uh questions that kind of jumped out to me so if anybody wants to repost those please put them into the q a so i can see them because there's quite a bit going on here um but you know one question was uh you know this 40 cfm per person sort of target number and you know i i want to kind of use a you know my own personal experience to kind of ask the question a little bit here and that is you know i think about like cooking right in my stove right my stove uh is a smart head of smart ventilation system so when it detects poor air quality it turns on the hood and then kicks it out and then if it detects worse poor air quality pm 2.5 it turns it out even higher right but so for me it's like okay do i wait until the pm 2.5 has built up to let it smartly turn it on so i waste some energy blow out some air and then get polluted while i'm cooking because sometimes it takes a little bit of time to detect it and this aren't your systems this is somebody else's but uh uh uh or you know do i do i turn it on right away before i cook so then it never detects that air pollution in the first place and so i'm asking you that question in the context of a whole home are we just constantly pumping in 40 cfm all the time so that pollution levels never build up we never get exposed in the first place or is it okay that it's cycling around detecting and then as they start to hit whatever level then we get to that 40 cfm you know i'm saying like is it 40 cfm continuous or is it intermittent but intermittent in a more intelligent way yeah so uh yeah thank you for for the question and and start out the discussion so uh let me see if and this is more for personal experience and usually when when you cook that's where you start turning on that uh the fan and an exhaust panel 62.2 uh actually recommends fans to be about i think it's 50 50 cfm uh specific continuous but that's the one that you basically when you turn it on uh when you're cooking and you're starting and usually you cook it is when when when uh the contaminants are getting annoying that's when you start turning around and so on so yeah i think the smart system should be able to uh to to detect that uh so you don't have to worry about about that um also smart systems can integrate also your defining in the kitchen and and if uh the the more i don't wanna use uh let's say yeah you can you can add a little bit of innovation in the sensor like putting more more uh sensors in different places of the house that you see that it will help you uh manage that that indoor air quality because the the location we didn't there are many other things that um uh are saying parameters that we also take into account air distribution i didn't talk too much about air distribution but also the location of the sensor if the location of the sensor is somewhere else very far from the from the kitchen definitely it's not going to be helpful uh so maybe that that's another thing that you have to put is i'm sorry similarly to a thermostat if the thermostat is put in in the wrong place there are some areas of your home that it needs to be that it will be harder than the other ones so you you have to have a a through understanding of of uh of air distribution where are the location of the monitors and also if you are able to to uh to put more connection connectivity between the sensors and the fans around your home even better and and it could be done yeah great thanks um and then uh you know the the uh the next question you know you you bring up um radon and i'm curious how much you see something like that being measured um intelligently you know my i was surprised to receive a text message from my uh uncle who's also lives in in your great state over there victor and uh he had set up a whole like kind of crazy system uh including an amazon device where you know his radon system only runs when it detects actual radon and then it shuts down i don't think it has any sort of um inter it doesn't you know ramp up there's a better word for that but it doesn't you know it's just either on or off and i was like wow i need to do that because i'm using a lot of energy here but uh is that something you know you all get involved in as well that you know systems are able to uh you know detect radon or is that is that kind of just something that sounds like everyone kind of has to figure out on their own with like some kind of connection and a smart switch oh yeah i would say that radon it has to be uh addressed separately in the sense that the mitigation system is the one the way to go in the sense of uh yeah definitely the smart system will do that and it could be in star but i think it's more of a of a safety approach the same as a carbon monoxide we have to take care of that that type of uh of pollutants separately how we call it more uh yeah very seriously because those high impacts but i have a personal experience i bought a commercially available monitor who was measuring carbon dioxide volatile organic compounds radon uh and then suddenly we have a radar mitigation system installed maybe five years ago and then suddenly i saw the levels of radon so high i was just like what is this and and actually helped me understand that the mitigation system was not working yeah uh so uh it was a yeah it was a great uh way just monitoring understanding then calling the experts uh uh and and helping us to to basically uh solve the issue it was basically the funding the fund wasn't working so they replaced the plan yeah i had i had a similar situation thankfully nothing was broken but the power went out and tripped the radon system turned it off right and and what what normal person is going to uh go and look at their radon system ever right you know all these systems installed all across the country who's actually checking if they're working so yeah my monitor you know showed the levels going up uh and you know sure enough oh i just have to unplug it and plug it back in so yeah yeah but uh yeah it's important to have those so um uh [Music] trying to see if there's any other specific questions you know um you know how is education on these things getting down to the level where you know homeowners are engaging with you know like the maybe the big box stores or whoever right you know for example ian here uh and i appreciate what he shared you know walked into the store asked for low voc paint the people at the sales didn't even know what he was talking about right like what is that and in this case i think you know i was like that's okay because most all paint now is low voc right but they should have been like oh you're concerned about health well here's no voc here's negative voc paint uh here is our bath fans over here you know whatever you know it seemed like a missed opportunity so what kind of education is getting out there where you know consumers aren't hanging out on these webinars i wish they were we're trying but when they're getting out to those places where they're they're making those informed decisions yeah that's a good question and i guess uh it's an open question maybe someone will have a a a better answer than me uh i would say is that yes it just keep keep the the familiarity of the issue uh keep under everybody a lot of education improving the standards actually i'm part of the uh technical committee for standard 62.2 i just recently joined i was able to do that and then basically trying to bring all this knowledge that we had gotten from a tiny walk uh just bring it and basically have that discussion and continue the education and like you are doing uh just opening eyes here with uh all your audience on on on on yeah first of all i think everybody understands how unhealthy could a home could be it's just that uh maybe right now we are now having tools to measure that and then and then um and and now i think the standards need to move that that direction i don't know if i answer your question well you actually started answering the next question so uh sorry so good um yeah so there was a question about you know how do we change these standards it sounds like you're involved how close are we to where you know ashrae starts you know putting together a process for smart ventilation um so that it's just built right into the standard yeah i will give you a report maybe in a year after i've been in a year involvement i i would say that i would say it's just that uh as in any industry like the same as building codes we ask a lot of questions why the building codes are are these and know this it's basically a lot of a lot of discussion involved also a lot of agreements needs to be done there is cost cost that it needs to be a part of the discussion uh and and i think it's just a little bit complex the discussions and this is why maybe they're moving forward slower than we want now that we have tons of uh research uh information a lot of information about the the importance of monitoring just to solve the problem directly um and you know uh is is is ashrae for people to get like involved is it does it end up going for public comment or is it pretty specialists that you know get to make those decisions oh yeah no there is public comment exactly yes okay so maybe you go to their website and sign up exactly notifications and they can make that well um that's great victor you know i don't see any other specific questions uh from like a general standpoint um so you know at this point i'd like to kind of turn it back over to you and just kind of have you tell us a little bit more about um build equinox and what you all have to offer and help people i see some specific questions about that so with that we will end at least the formal cu session here and then we'll turn it over back to you to um talk us through that so thanks everyone and stick around still if you can thank you very soon can i share my screen again okay yeah yeah yeah basically yeah a few slides in the sensor like uh from building equinox uh i'm very proud to to be in this group i just recently joined about a year ago already uh but uh but yes they develop solutions for healthy comfortable and sustainable lifestyles so those are the three numbers that actually three aspects of a home that we are paying attention to healthy comfortable sustainable and learn basically yeah learn learn to live sustainable not to make a major impact on on that the major product that i think you guys are familiar with is this smart healthy indoor air quality system it's a smart ventilation system and the third two service basically conditioning energy recovery ventilation the conditioning is because it has a heat pump that also helps you uh control the humidity uh in the summer um but basically they and and i think brett i think we're talking about a a new class talking more about the energy recovery so i'm not going to put too much uh explaining here we can we can set up a class talking about energy recoveries uh ventilators um please go to the website build equinox that's where we are basically gathering and tiny wallets putting a lot of experimental research computational analysis on indoor air quality and comfort that's basically the fundamental basis of or basically the presentation that i just provided tons of tons of research there and this is my smart ventilation system basically uh the cert two is is is basically uh applying everything that i just mentioned we measure the pollutants so this has the capability of measuring the pollutants carbon dioxide volatile organic compounds we're moving to to measure and the particle particles basically mass and particle count then we use the numbers that i i provided or build equinox healthy indoor air quality guidelines uh just to compare and then uh reduce when it's needed and and and it does everything basically ventilation filtration and micro deactivation that's an optional option uh package but yes you can put a basically an ultraviolet um gb jeremy cylori radiation uh in this a product um and efficiently because this is smart that means when i say smart is basically it has a feedback on what's happening in your home so high concentrations we just uh do those three ventilation filtration at the same time is it um is it uh pm 2.5 and 1 or 10 that's part of this yeah so that's the the future development so we recommend this pm10 pm10 is basically but we are doing both we are counting and we are uh measuring the weight so pm10 it will measure all the heavy ones right and then the particle count it will it will um yeah it will measure the little ones now what about um you know humidity because obviously sometimes you want to act maybe maybe not but you want to react a little bit differently if your house is starting to get overly humid or starts to dry out how do you how do you all handle that yeah humidity is another another uh another webinar that's uh and i think you have one right yeah yes but humidity is basically yes we want to maintain it depends on the region it depends on where you are located uh so yes your your hvac system your air conditioning systems should have some uh some humidity uh removal this one will add some more uh but uh but there are some areas where really you need to have an additional humidifier dehumidifier to try to control those levels and i actually 62.2 i believe or 0.1 i think they are starting to recommend some numbers i think uh i know that uh dr stephanie taylor she recommends something below sixty percent uh so it's as well sensor technology will help you measure temperature and humidity if you see that is building up uh the place where you will see the most buildup it would be in the bathrooms that's where where all these exhaust fans will be helpful to try to remove that and so on and efficiently basically yes trying to connect trying to have the feedback into your system to to be able to control it does the heat pump built into this system give additional dehumidification on par you know above the energy recovery ventilator that that is correct because basically uh yeah so what we are doing here is the exhaust recovery actually the energy recovery we use the heat pump in the sense it's like there is going to be a um we are exchanging heat between the the conditioning air i'm sorry the exhaust air that it's already a temperature that is inside so we move it through a heat exchanger then uh and then the other one that it's coming out from the outside so if you during the summer uh the the one the condenser i'm sorry the evaporator oh yeah we're cooling it down so it's going to have an evaporator basically an evaporator a similar evaporator that the air conditioning will have that it will be bringing down the the air temperature because of uh depending on where you are in the psychometric chart you also will be removing some of the of the um humidity so yes it adds some additional uh removable humidity but some in some areas it might not be enough so you have to have some uh dehumidifier as well especially in some local areas here and um so what i'm happy about it is uh being in this team is that we also working on on on on product development we want to basically have this uh approach on uh on basically smart systems and we are we have already uh a pilot project in a school in illinois where we develop this basically it's a cabinet system and not only has ventilation but also has a heat pump for space heating and cooling uh mere 13 filters basically everything that we just apply we want to put these systems or this type of approach in schools to improve the health on on students we know that the benefits of having a healthy indoor air in the schools for our kids and so on so we want to have that moment that we had an opportunity to do that and the same is with um i think you guys are hearing more and more these integrated mechanical system pods for deep retrofits uh basically is have a kind of like a small mechanical room and that you can manufacture somewhere else just put it in in your retrofit home retrofit fit project and then just connect some piping and some ducting uh so we are doing that so we are also having this um or or version where we again or or our first approach is basically maintain healthy indoor air quality in your rooms and then we integrate it with a hip-hop water heater a heat pump space heating and cooling for comfort and and water heater yeah so you're saying it actually can be you know you see integrated ervs in deducted systems not ideal but it can be done i have one too and so you're saying this could be integrated and function right within the within the existing furnace or heat pump correct exactly yes so we are integrating a heat pump with the ventilation system all together uh and then what we want to do is basically this mechanical system where where basically we hooked up the the duct uh that is coming in the return docked to the system this this system could be inside or outside but also we try to integrate it as small as possible because we want to also put out some space for the water heater so it's basically a unit that will have water heating and a comfort healthy indoor yeah so you know obviously we want everyone to go all electric um but uh you know it can be difficult especially with high electric rates and so there's a you know up and coming dual fuel systems where you know heat pumps can integrate with the existing gas furnaces right and they can kind of work in unison with it until it gets really cold how does your system could it work like that would it chip away at the energy needed using the heat pump um yeah is that something you've all thought about i'm sorry if i'm understanding basically what would be the energy savings here or yeah like so for example if you wanted to integrate the serve to which has a heat pump to um you know take on some of that conditioning and take it away from you know the need to burn more gas or you know even until the temperature hits a certain whatever it might be you know you know like with traditional heat pumps you know they might go all the way down to 20 30 40 degrees years i suspect it's not as big so it might be a higher but you know maybe maybe you just run off the serve when it's 60 degrees i don't know is that something you've thought about is sort of integrating with existing systems yeah actually yeah that's a very good point and it has to do with the controls and that's where we're focusing a lot more on that but that's a very good point uh because if you're if you're outside air it's it's basically perfect condition perfect uh we don't wanna go through all this we just want to bring it directly right we just want to filter that definitely for sure filter it but if it's already that's what we call it free cooling uh basically it's air that is outside uh that this this control system also will help you to recirculate maybe maybe the problem is not high concentrations of carbon dioxide maybe the problem is a lot of particulate matter so maybe it's from the outside or from other places maybe we we we don't want to we might also maintain the energy by just recirculating we don't want to keep always bringing some fresh air if we don't need it so maybe just recirculating through the filter so the control system there is the capability of having that and how you say that brain uh integrated that it can help us basically decide uh um uh what to do what what did this type of uh of equipment it does so if we integrate all of them it's easier for us to manage because then because then the air conditioning is not gonna do something that uh the ventilation system is gonna do the same or duplicate or so on so yes controls is the key right thanks yeah and i will say that just visit visit our website call us um we basically there is a as i mentioned a lot of extensive research about the impact of pollutants and this is why these are the basis of fundamentals for for for conditioning system for ventilation system thank you everybody uh thank you brad for for the invitation uh i think we are planning to do a couple more uh webinars and one of them definitely is talking more about the energy recovery and again there is a lot of confusion between what is an energy recovery we think that energy recovery is going to help the ventilation issues it's part of it we have to also integrate it and understand a little bit more what is that for and and how can we integrate um monitoring systems of pollution and so on yeah yeah i know yeah we'll definitely you know have you all back out to talk about some more things do you still have a second for some other questions that came in yeah yeah yeah please please go ahead yeah so since we're talking about the surf too i think you know the question is what is the you know cost for a system like this and you know maybe you know try to break it apart between install you know and i know that's kind of hard to control the install versus you know the actual product itself oh we're talking about specific questions on on on the product yeah oh yeah that was what i thought we were here to do well i'm sorry yeah you're not ready for that two weekends i'm not ready yet yeah we can give everybody your email um well then maybe maybe maybe what i'd rather ask than is um you know so i'll just tell you from my experience it has been an uphill battle um because of you know labor shortage and all sorts of other problems that heating and cooling contractors have to deal with i want to try to be empathetic here you know to work with them on advanced heating and cooling and ventilation systems right going above your standard install and so you know trying to ask someone to do this you know sounds to me like an even step above asking them to put in a heat pump or an erv which again is you know it's a tough sell uh you know a lot of heating and cooling contractors are like i won't do that you don't need that it costs too much right uh or i don't have time or worse you know and maybe you can tell me how this is on your end it's out of stock because of a supply shortage um so tell me a little bit about you know sort of the training aspect the ease of install i know this could be a whole nother session but just briefly you know if somebody wanted to start doing this work in their area how do they get their contractors convinced to do it and then can they actually get the product because of all the material shortages can you even actually build these right now yeah yeah so yeah it's it's a i would say that yeah definitely visit us build equinox contact me my my my uh my email is victor equinox.com if you have all those questions about it in general i would say that um as we focus on on on cost savings energy reduction i think we today we talk about yeah we we also have to have a holistic view and it's the sense of the if there are energy bills that we want to reduce but we also want to reduce the health bills so the visits to the doctors and that's where where i don't know how because yeah we are working on buildings and that's something that is not included but in general i think the the the idea here is basically we have to include because if we are trying to reduce a lot of energy we say well we we cannot afford a monitoring system of pollutants because uh because the the question here it didn't it didn't let me to do that but we are not including that those type of uh of uh monitoring pollutants are going to be really helpful to avoid some health issues in the future uh and and that also has some cost in in the overall cause it will be impacted through basically a lot of visits to the doctor some productivity let's say the sick days that you have to stay over because you you you you had a a disease that it was that it could be monitored or killed by by by assistance so yeah that's configuration but unfortunately there is no standard that is helping us to do that however we see a lot more emphasis on healthy when we are talking about buildings building sustainability now those two number names healthy and sustainable are together so we are moving forward i think we're just the beginning and we need to move forward and learn from each other yeah yeah well um well great victor i you know i appreciate your time uh hanging out with us go and uh educating everyone we'll definitely have you all back to keep the conversation going where can people go um to reach out or learn more or inquire if they you know want to you know maybe put a serve in their project yeah you can contact me directly victor at build equinox.com maybe i'll write it in the chat let me see and uh and then uh yeah and then visit the build equinox dot com or uh for more information about about the products and about the um yeah about the products the technology that we have and also the research that we have done so far there is a couple more i don't know if joyce and jack is here but uh does victor have comments on product quality and pricing um not specifically i have been using can i say yeah i you email me personally yeah we're gonna send you all the questions uh in the chat too if there's something you wanna follow up with you'll be you can do that too so yeah okay thank you so much brad that's sorry yeah take care victor good night everybody thanks everyone bye be sure to check out all of our courses available online that you can watch anytime and anywhere to pick up your ceus before you go make sure to subscribe to us on youtube to get weekly updates and stay up to date on green building science courses webinars and home tours thanks again