Bystander Intervention Strategies: The 5D's Explained

[00:00:00][Music] hello everybody hello hello it's nice to see you all here today thanks for waiting a little bit extra time i promise it was worth it uh welcome back everybody to conversations with authors today we are bringing to uh we are bringing you jorge artiega not the one i thought i would mess up on uh and emily may um who are the authors of i've got your back uh but before we get to our authors properly please allow me to welcome you back one last time to uh book passage's conversations with authors uh if you've seen one of these events before uh we're glad to see you again um but if you're new here book passage is an independently run bookstore to the san francisco bay area and we host and run book talks just like this one very often throughout the week as we are now streaming on youtube and we'll continue to do so in the future please consider subscribing by clicking the subscribe button just below the video it's completely free and honestly helps us out a lot and as an added bonus if you click the little bell next to the subscribe button uh and select all you will be alerted every time we go live with one of these so you don't have to miss out on a talk or a book you otherwise might have really enjoyed if you'd like to check out our upcoming events or like the idea of receiving our email newsletter you can find it using the very first link in the description below at bookpassage.com or just at bookpassage.com um if you'd like to check out our speaker's book which again is i've got your back you again can find that in the description below or at bookpassage.com finally if you have any questions for us tonight please take the time to write them in the youtube chat it is just to the right of the video you are watching or just below depending on how you're seeing this uh and it is the only way to get your questions to our speakers today so please don't miss out on your chance uh now on to our authors please allow me to introduce uh jorge artiega whose passion for history places and people in his ability to plan and execute have allowed him to bring his operational skills to serve in the social justice movement he earned his bachelor's in american studies from suny college at old westbury and his masters in american studies at the city college of new york he is currently completed completing his ms in project management and operations at southern new hampshire university also uh the our our co-author tonight is emily may uh who is an international leader in the movement to end harassment in all its forms in 2005 at the age of 24 she co-founded right-to-be former former lee hollaback uh may has won 11 awards for her work and has been featured in more than 200 news media outlets including people the new york times npr she holds a bachelor from new york university a master's from the london school of economics and is a prime movers fellow uh please welcome both of them to the screen uh thank you very much for being here everybody welcome thanks so much for having us nick we're excited to be here yeah we're excited thanks for having us uh so i'm gonna go ahead and uh kick us off here huh or so get us sharon we're good there yeah we're good we're good so welcome welcome um we wrote a book and uh it's called i've got your back the indispensable guide to stopping harassment when you see it and it is truly our offer to the world about how to intervene when you see harassment happening so let me tell you a little bit about myself before i hand it over to jorge um as nick mentioned i co-founded hollaback and started it when i was a wee one only 24 years old um and really started it based on my own experiences with street harassment or sexual harassment in public space and at the time it was something i was experiencing three or four times a day and i felt like there was no meaningful solution to it and so um we had recently heard a story about a woman named tel nguyen who was riding the new york city subway when an older man started publicly masturbating in front of her and tal pulled out her cell phone camera she um uh took his picture with the idea of taking it to the police but when she took it to the police they said sorry miss he's probably seven or eight stops away nothing we can do and um and she um uh and then from there she she said all right well i'm just gonna put it on flickr and it went viral and made it to the front cover of the new york daily news um and so with this we started um we started right to be formerly known as hollaback with the idea of sharing stories about harassment and today right to be is a global organization working to end harassment in all of its forms not just gender-based street harassment but also harassment as it happens at work online and harassment is it happens in ways that are racist or sexist homophobic ableist and our idea here is that we want to make sure that people have the ability each of us have the ability to build a world that's free of harassment and filled with humanity and and our work focuses on trying the care that we have for each other into simple creative and effective action um so that's a little bit about me and and my history i come out this very much from the experience of somebody who has experienced harassment throughout my life but also somebody who has worked in the field of addressing harassment for over 18 years now and in my journey has learned that harassment happens in so many different ways to so many different people and it can look so different it's also an issue that i've learned over time that we despite having probably experienced it since the beginning of time have spent relatively little energy addressing as a society we have this mantra that sticks and stones will break my bones but worlds words will never hurt me right that has really gotten in the way but over the past five years we've seen a surge in um in really i would say understanding that words do hurt um that they do create harm in our society and that they can escalate into worse forms of violence and so it's been such an amazing journey to to really take content that um that we created over 12 years ago around bystander intervention to have seen it have almost zero interest because people didn't actually believe that harassment was a problem uh 10 12 years ago and then to see the surging interest in bystander intervention this surging interest in what people can do to address harassment um when it happens so with that i will pass it over to my co-author co-conspirator co-visionary jorge artiago oh thank you so much i love it when you say that um i think it's awesome um so i mean we wrote a book right like emily said i still i'm still trying i'm still sitting with it um i think uh for me um coming to this work is important not for a couple of reasons um one right my lived experience as a gay afro-latino male um who i grew up in i would say uh a not so easy neighborhood to grow up in um especially uh you know when you're a male of color and then later identify as you know gay um and so you know i i remember before coming um to hollaback well right to be now but when i first came it was hollowback um you know always wanting to show up and in service of folks to support folks who are experiencing harm but really not knowing how to do that um and part of that really came from um you know i grew up the way i grew up was like you mind your business you don't get involved that's not your business things can quickly turn on you uh you know you don't never mind even thinking about calling you know for police or anything like that or or telling someone else anything right like you deal with it and then you keep it moving and so um that was hard because i also grew up um and was raised by a whole bunch of like um like uh activist women of color right like they were so at the same time i was seeing this whole um don't don't say anything don't show up to you know you you don't call the police that's not how we handle stuff right um consider snitching stuff like that but then i also had um these amazing women who were just like you know uh providing support uh to the folks in the community who who people weren't normally thinking of right like folks uh who were home who who didn't have a home right uh women who were experiencing um domestic violence uh lgbtq plus youth who have been kicked out of their homes and didn't have a place to go uh the women in my family um were showing up in those situations so i felt this impetus to do something but i didn't know what and so i showed up to uh then holla back and i remember learning about the five d's of bystander intervention and thinking to myself wow there is something that that i can do um there is something that folks can do when we see people experiencing harm um there is something someone could have done when that person called me you know a slow fat on the mta uh platform because i had some weight it would take me a minute to get up the stairs and you know someone just someone could have said something but i thought i was like well i didn't know about this and at that time i consider myself to be pretty quote-unquote progressive right um i don't think an everyday the everyday person will know that there's other things you can do besides directly intervening right you're putting yourself in harm's way um and so you know within my first month at the organization i got to do some of that um uh i got to practice the five days of bystander intervention and realize that my superpower was distract and i'm not distract sorry direct that i was a direct intervener um and um once once i kind of was able to put it into action and saw how helpful and useful it was and how i was able to impact someone just by supporting them when they were being harmed you know this is is what is what we wanted to do we wanted to put it out into the world and so um emily you know last year i think last year was that we trained over 250 000 folks and i think um training those people we saw that they were feeling exactly what we were feeling like folks wanted they wanted this they wanted to be able to digest it to do something with it and so um emily convinced me to write the book with her so that's why i come to his work that's why it's important to me that's why this book is important to me and i will i will yell it to the mountains and [Music] everyone i know will get a copy and so uh but why the book is important um so i think we're gonna we're gonna get a little fun now just to say why don't see why the book is important we're gonna have a little pop quiz um and so we want to know folks who are watching make sure if you're watching get your answers in that chat um and we'll give you all a second to respond but what percentage of people said it improved the situation when someone intervened to stop the harassment and so do you think it was 15 79 45 or 62 percent um and we'll go ahead and let some answers come into that chat before we go ahead and give you our response and we got a question um that uh that we would we would like to answer so while those answers are coming in and while you guys are guessing you know what percentage of people said it improved the situation when somebody intervened to stop harassment i'm gonna answer this question from mr domingo who asked what advice would you give on introducing or teaching the 5ds to children is it recommended um we've got you yes it is recommended we actually have videos that we um have uh have put together on what the 5ds can look like for children that we would absolutely love for you to show to your kids they're really designed for ages 3 to 10 about but then in addition to that we are working on developing a k through 12 curriculum um that can be taught by teachers in schools that also helps to achieve some of the the english and history standards that are required in schools as well so you can you know uh achieve all the things at once if you will um i don't want to kill any birds but you can achieve all the things um and um uh and so stay tuned for that as well we'll be looking at launching that in the in the coming weeks and years and and um or even you know flirting with the possibility of going ahead and writing a 5ds for kids children's book as well but it's a great question because we are absolutely aligned with you it is one thing for adults to learn this but it's a whole other thing for kids to learn this um and what i would also offer is that we when we talk to kids we tell them basically the only thing they can do when they see harassment bullying happen is to tell their teacher and that's just one option and we not all teachers are going to be the best folks out there to receive this information not all teachers are equipped to move with this information which is another thing that we're hoping to solve by teaching bystander intervention specifically to educators um but people as we know are more likely to act if they have an option that responds to them so that's what the 5ds is is all about and and we've taken the time to adapt it to children because we're aligned this is a hugely important issue and we want to get it out there and we want the 5ds to be as widely known among kids in the 2020s as top drop and roll was known among kids in the 70s and 80s the 90s you know the rest of us thank you emily um thank you for that question that was a great question uh and so uh we will share some information with y'all um uh about where you can see those uh videos or shown to your kids and so uh we got some answers rolling in um and so it looks like a majority of we got some mixed answers the majority of y'all said uh 79 and so um yes so the 79s have it 79 of people said it improved their situation once someone stepped in to support them when they were experiencing harassment but only 25 of people said someone actually helped them and so the hope is to close that gap right to get more folks um involved and let them know that there's there's options you have options there's different ways you can get involved that don't necessarily involve you putting yourself in harm's way or harming yourself or and and when we think about harm i think not just like physical harm right uh because there is uh we do talk about online and workplace um harassment as well in the book and so thinking of like you know what are some of those financial or career implications um that folks worry about real things that folks worry about power dynamics that may be at play um in the workplace and how you can navigate those as well and so we will um talk more about the solution right uh that's what this book is uh one of the many solutions um and when we talk about bystander intervention um you know we're perfectly aware that it is as old as time right we did not invent it um however what we have done is through the over 250 000 people we've trained and over 18 000 stories we've collected is we've listened to folks um and we've heard you know and studied like what um what is supportive for them right um how have they been able to show up or receive support in a way um that has been thoughtful um and then also equip folks with just knowledge right like things we can do um to to step in um and so we build a quick framework or five days um so that in those moments when you freeze and you do want to do something you do want to step in um you know and you just don't know what to do you have five things you can quickly refer to except that in the book you get to uh um spend some more time figuring out what that is uh for you and so emily you want to go ahead and kick us off with our uh first d yeah let me tell you about the five ds um so we have five ds the first one is just drax followed by delegate followed by document followed by delay followed by direct so what we want to do here is just give you a little introduction to what they are obviously they are deeply unpacked in this book that you guys are about to read um but we want to you know kick us off with a little uh a little little teaser about what's to come so let's take a look at distract um distract is simply creating a distraction to de-escalate the situation so um that could be um something as simple as you know dropping a coffee cup or a handful of change right like not the good stuff like the pennies um on the floor people will scramble to pick it up or people move so they don't get wet um it can also look like something as um as you know simple as starting a conversation with the person being harassed so it could be a uh hey um you look familiar do i know you from somewhere or gosh um you know do we work together or what's directions to um right the idea isn't necessarily to start like a deep meaningful conversation about the harassment that they're experiencing the idea is really to start a conversation that then helps them and you build safe space with each other and in doing that the person doing the harassing starts to get starved of the attention they're looking for in that dynamic and will slowly and surely back it up so either approach that you have and these approaches work at work online we've heard stories of people at work who you know will will say like hey susie like i really need your help with this thing over here away from where you are right um all of these different dynamics and um and distract is a really popular one because there's a lot of creativity in here there's a lot of ability to kind of throw down you're able to disrupt harassment while it's happening and you never have to be detected by the person doing the harassing all right so let's distract and now i will um take us through uh delegate and so delegate is really about getting someone to help you um finding someone to support you uh and you know when we say get someone to support you i mean think about the person next to you right um how might you uh be able to get them uh to support you if you're on public transportation you see something you might feel like i'm not the right person to get involved in this thing how can i um you know get someone else involved and say like hey do you see what's happening over there uh do you mind maybe sitting in between them or saying something i don't feel comfortable because it seems like uh that that person that woman over there is being harassed because she's a woman i'm also a woman i don't want to get harassed as well right like these are real things um that folks think about and so how do you get someone else to support you um and then you know you could think about who might be an authority in that space so on that same bus maybe you might go up to a bus driver i mean realistically right the bus driver is driving the bus so they might not be able to help you as quickly but if that's what you might need maybe you need to get the bus stopped or whatever it is you can go up to a bus driver if you're at a restaurant think about maybe like your uh your server or like a manager um and so thinking about who might be an authority in that space and someone who asked about kids right schools like might be a teacher might be a principal right so thinking about who that person is um so folks always ask when we say delegate well i know we'll just delegate it to the police um and or we'll call 9-1-1 and actually uh we do not recommend that you call police immediately um you should check in with the person um if you can checking with the person who's experiencing the harm harassment and see like hey do you need um do you need me to call 9-1-1 uh and you know if they say yes then go ahead but what we found is that you know often often oftentimes folks actually they don't feel exactly safe around the police or um worried that things might escalate or that they may somehow uh um you know be harassed or be put at further risk we've seen that with folks who historically don't have good relationships or good experiences with law enforcement um and also you know it can quickly escalate things i think now pivoting from a public space to thinking about how does that work like how does that work at work right delegate um you know work we have resources um you might consider talking to a manager a supervisor or go into your hr department right um delegating to them and then you know in an online setting we think about how might you uh use the platforms right delegate it to them by reporting it or getting your you know if you have folks who are supporting you and maybe like uh pages that you're a part of or listeners you might be a part of letting them know about the harm that you're witnessing and how they might be able to support um and so that is delegate and you want to take us through document all right so document we have seen so many human rights abuses especially you know over the past 10 years since cell phone cameras have risen into popularity exposed um and we're going to teach you how to do it a little different because the real secret sauce to all five of these d's here is that bystander intervention intervention isn't about being a hero it's not about swooping down and saving the day it's about prioritizing the person being harassed and so with document while you are documenting somebody's harassment it is an incredibly important and powerful thing to do but your next move isn't to you know march off to the nightly news it is not to march off to your local you know instagram stories um your next right move once you have documented that harassment is to give it to the person being harassed really leave them in choice for what they want to do recognize that this is their trauma right for some folks what that might look like given their life their story their family is hiding it but for many many many folks what we find is that they want to shine a light on this they want to send it to the media or use it to explain to their boss why they're late to work today they want to post on their own social media feeds that people understand what it's like to be in their body every single day but they want to be in choice about it and so your role as a bystander is to let them be in choice whether it's in public and you are busting out your cell phone camera maybe it's at work and you're just taking notes on something that's happening giving somebody those notes so they have them in the event that they do want to report it to hr um or maybe it's online and document is about taking screenshots that that person can then file away if the situation escalates or used to report the harassment to the platform where it happens no matter how you document the key and really this is the key with all of our approaches is that you put the control in the hands of the person being harassed as to what happens next all right back to you jorge so i know our plan was to switch off but i feel like we're about to roll into our superpowers right now and so i feel like you should do the laying out to the right all right all right all right that's true that's true so so am i i have a wimpy super i don't know if anybody here is like historically conflicted verse like i am um i've gotten better at conflict by the way um but um i've also always been really really good at that um like check-in at that best friending of people my first job out of college was as a case manager and um outreach worker for mentally ill homeless adults and so the are you okay right is a core question that i intuitively understand in my body um and that's why i love delay is because it is that simple it's the are you okay this is something that a lot of times when harassment happens it's so quick it's all you can do is ask if somebody's okay but it's also something that can be paired with literally any of these other d's right anything that you do that quick check-in is so simple right you're like i can't believe there's a whole d dedicated to asking you okay um and yet it is so powerful our research from cornell university shows that as little as a knowing glance can reduce trauma for people who experience harassment so that knowing glance is something that any of us can do i'll tell you a quick story is um probably i don't even know seven or eight years ago um i was writing the new york city subway back from a city council hearing on harassment believe it or not um and i was with our intern kate and um and there's an older woman uh sitting across from her probably under seven across from us in her 70s or 80s and she looks at us and she kind of does like like encouraging us to scoot down on on the seat and we look around and like there's nobody else on the seats it's not crowded it's the middle of a work day and all of a sudden kate and i look to our right and we see this man fully exposed waist down and we would literally scream right and as we scream this man um just exits he leaves he goes to another car um and um kate and i were sort of in this just moment of deep shock right and we look over at this this woman across from us and she just does this like very classic new yorker like people who ride this subway like shakes her hand right just that head that head shake she doesn't say anything to us it's simply that head shake but the fact that she took the time to ask us to scoot away and then took the time to give us that acknowledgement that what we went through wasn't normal it wasn't okay it wasn't the price we pay for being women or being gay right like that was everything um and that's what delays you direct to over you over to you direct jorge uh direct which is your your go-to superpower yeah yeah um and so it's funny because you know um i always thought of direct as like i'm just gonna go and tell this person off and tell them exactly um what i think and like go off on them and then i realized like nope that's not it that's not what the wreck is right so direct is being direct about the harassment the disrespect that you're witnessing but then it's like you create that boundary so be direct you know that's racist that was sexist that's inappropriate um you're making that person feel uncomfortable and then give them a very clear action boundary you should step away from them give them some space stop talking to them get away from them and then that's it don't engage with the person who's doing the harassing don't uh go into a back and forth or get into an argument or like i'm gonna tell you because that's not what you're there for you're there to take care of the person who's experiencing the harm um so you wanna then quickly after you've created that boundary i told them giving them an action then turn around and take care of the person experiencing a roster check in with them make sure they're okay um you know so i told you you know i had to use the 5ds and found that my superpower was direct in my you know first couple of weeks at then hollaback know right to be and so um yeah i walked into the mail room i was checking our mail and there was um an asian woman there and i heard her saying please leave me alone um please step away and so um i remember just like this feeling of like i need to help this person and so i went up to her and said hey are you okay is everything okay and as i'm saying that she's like no this man is and when she's saying this man is he starts to like hurl insults and like racist comments and swearing at the woman or cursing at her and so um i said i looked to him and i said she asked you to leave her alone and you shouldn't speak to her that way that's inappropriate and then i turned around and i'm talking to a woman but then this man started to yell at me um and so in that moment i felt my my blood pressure rise actually to be honest with you i felt myself get like real hot and i was getting ready to verbally spar with this man in the mail room for getting married like i'm at work and also stuff and then i look at this woman's face and she is terrified um like oh my god this is gonna get work you know worse and not have two escalated people on my hands and so in that moment i realized like hey this is not gonna work my superpower is not working um i'm gonna turn and find someone else to help and so i delegated and i found someone uh to go and support and so what i like about direct is um you know you can speak up um but then you have to like like take care of that person um in a workplace it might look like you know it might not be as uh confrontational or you might say it a little more subtler like hey what did you mean um by that comment you made right or you might say i don't understand what's what's funny about that that comment actually sounds inappropriate or sexist or homophobic um and then you know wait there right um and maybe you might not jump to use any of those yet right away you might say you know what did you mean by that you want to say that again give that person an opportunity uh to walk back what they're saying um or really read like what did i just say right and and hopefully um self-correct um and so and then in in online settings i mean first is you know because uh harassment can be um unwieldy i would really recommend that if you do not know the person um that you do not directly engage with them um if you don't feel comfortable um part of that is really around like what does your digital safety look like right if you are deciding to say something making sure that your digital safety is short up and secure and so um yeah you know direct can be used uh and it doesn't necessarily mean you have to like go off on the person right it's not about the person doing the rising it is about the person who's experiencing harassment all right so those are our five these um and so i'm kind of curious i know you've heard us all the superpower talk i'd like to hear you know based on what you've heard um and folks maybe want to chime in in the chat and share you know what do you feel might be your superpower um and something cool about the book is that you actually will you can find out there's a whole uh chapter where you can you know walk through uh scenarios and kind of see what your comfortability level is or how you might respond right there's no right or wrong answer it's really about you assessing um how you might step into that situation um and then you get to find out like what are your superpowers i think the the other part of knowing what your superpower is is acknowledging that like yeah i'm really like maybe you feel like you can do all of them but knowing that like there's just one of them that like is natural to me and i feel comfortable doing most of the time um but then knowing that right like it might not always work like in the story i shared right my you me using the rack that'll work in that situation and so um then what is your backup superpower um so uh for folks who want to share that'd be cool and while you're all sharing emily i think i'm going to go ahead and just share some information on our five of these for kids videos yeah please do and so oh so we got a question um and it says uh so emma shared uh what do you think is the most overlooked uh super power huh i think it's the because it's yeah as people are like duh and they think it's so wimpy like i'm the bystander intervention lady and it's my superpower i can't be but so happy um yeah i think it's i that that's my vote what do you think we're here uh i do think um folks overlook okay um delay and i think for the reason i think that specifically i always remember um the training i gave i gave out a foundation um it was bystander intervention in public spaces and when we got to delay and i had finished covering it one of the attendees got up and shared a story with the room and essentially it was her recounting and experience that she had and you know while she was at work in the town manhattan um and how it was like lunch lunch hour in midtown so there was tons of people on the street um and this man you know verbally and physically um assaulted her pretty much on the streets um and everyone saw watched but kept walking didn't do anything she sat on the curb and she said she broke down crying and not one person walked up to her um and so knowing that like yeah that there is a lot of power and just acknowledging um and validating someone's experience right like yes you did just have that did happen i saw it and what emily said before it's it wasn't right so i think the other thing about delay is that if you don't do it right if you do it you reduce trauma if you don't do it if you don't do anything um it can actually increase trauma and a lot of times when we hear stories of people who have experienced harassment um they're almost less angry at the person that harassed them than they are at all the people who watched it and didn't do anything but then somebody the smallest thing right the are you okay or the knowing glance and it totally changes the game so i think it's it's one of those like high-powered superpowers that seems really low key but actually is a really important role to play in um reducing trauma and helping people feel less alone another question from kelly who asked what would you say to a younger person who might be afraid to speak up or intervene i think you know i'm afraid to speak up 41 41 strong 41 years old um i uh you know and and i can get paralyzed in those moments like i can be drawn back into my own um own trauma and have kind of a freeze response so i mean what i would say is like look that's normal like that's real the idea is that you find something that you can do that feels right to you it doesn't need to be direct direct is just one of five options um but chances are if you look at all five of the options you can find one that really makes sense to you um even when we teach direct to like little kids we're like hey like why don't you go ask them if they want to play with you or like throw them a ball on the playground right and say heads up catch those those types of things are things that kids are doing all the time so to deploy them strategically isn't confrontational um you know it's just um kind um yeah i i agree with that i would also say just you know i think first is letting them know that that there is multiple ways um that they can help someone right that it doesn't um need to just be that and so uh like they don't just need to be direct i think letting them know that and that they're not you know like they they also um realizing like what their comfortability level um my you know might be what's happening and so that's also important all right y'all so here we have uh some information on our uh the super uh ally with the 5ds videos for kids um you can check them out here on our uh channels i believe they're on our youtube channel and they're in partnership with our partners over at asian americans events and justice and the worry show and so please check them out spread them far and wide and as emily said before you know keep checking us out we will have we already have some concept for educators but we'll have more content for uh children soon near future thanks everyone and thanks to book package passage for having us thank you book passage and thank you nick well already oh sorry if i can get myself back on the screen really quick one second hello aha there we are uh [Music] i've returned um thank you one last time to uh to to both of you for coming up here and speaking today it was very very it was nice to see some of the people in the audience uh asking some good questions and uh you know having a good time guessing about percentages and whatnot it was very nice to see you all here today and thank you for the the very lovely uh uh lesson i guess we all learned today um it was very cool uh one last time to the audience a reminder that the book is i've got your back by both of these two lovely people um if you'd like to purchase it you can purchase it at bookpassage.com we will send it to your house just like any other online retailer yes just like that one and we can send it to anywhere in the united states if you have any questions about shipping outside the united states and really uh want to buy it from us we do do international shipping although it's a little bit of an extra process but nonetheless us right here uh i i really really appreciate you all coming out one last time uh i really do hope to see you in the next one see everybody bye [Music] ha ha ha ha ha purple [Music] time [Music] purple [Music] wow [Music] so [Music] huh [Music] time [Music] you