MA v Lucy Medina Trial Verdict: Domestic Violence Self-Defense Case

[00:00:01]B2 will be kind of classy. The cupcakes are sweet and sexy. Have fun, enjoy the journey. I just have a good attorney. A no big wolf, a no biggie. Now she lives in New York City and not just a YouTube show. And you know, you know, you better grab a straw.

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[00:01:02]Speaking Yiddish Latin. It's not just for Manhattan. That's for machic markers said that's for schmucks.

[00:01:17]Be cool. Be kindly classy. My cupcakes are sweet and sassy. Not just a YouTube show. And you know, you know, you know.

[00:01:27]Cool heads will prevail. Kindness will never fail. Be classy and vastly wise.

[00:01:35]Melanie Little is going live.

[00:01:47]We're back. We're back. Thank you everyone for coming on over to watch this. If you're new to the case, there are extensive show notes below this video. Uh, I want to get right into court because we're a little bit late.

[00:01:58]We got held up covering the very long public Karen Reed hearing this morning in which Mark Diller was forced to get up and make a public apology in front of the world. So, if you missed that, go back and watch it later. Let's uh get into court because law girls, not attorneys, are in there doing the Lord's work for us. Court TV has a camera. They won't stream it. And so Law Girls went in there and said, "We're going to stream it because we're interested in this case because we heard about it." And so they're in there, they have permission to stream, so it's not a problem. And uh I think today what they did was cuz I I listened to them yesterday, they did a like an in the car on the way home from court stream.

[00:02:39]And they said that the Court TV camera person told them they could plug into his camera. So I think we're going to get a better, you know, better views today. Okay. So, um, please listen. Uh, please, this is such an important case.

[00:02:53]Massachusetts doesn't want you to know about it. CourtTV doesn't want you to know about it, or they don't care because maybe it's not a sexy murder trial. Uh, and it's just a woman who's being wrongfully persecuted and facing, I don't know, more than 20 years in jail for assaulting the husband that beat her for 28 years brutally as admitted by the husband.

[00:03:14]Okay, let's get into court. This happened a little bit earlier this morning. not too long ago, like an hour.

[00:03:19]I'm not sure if law girls were able to get there in time because I know that it was a very icy today and they may have trouble have had trouble getting there, but please go over and give them a thank you for doing this for us because without them, we would not have a feed.

[00:03:32]Court TV doesn't care. This case is so important. Uh this is right where they started about I don't know how long ago about let's see hour and 15 minutes ago. And I want to get right in there because I'm afraid that it's going to be a quick verdict.

[00:03:48]I'm hope I'm hopeful it's going to be a quick verdict. But then again, they were buying the jury lunch today. So, you just never know. Let me know that you can hear it or if we need a boost.

[00:04:03]Actually, there's no volume yet.

[00:04:34]Your honor, I will mark the final instructions to the jury as J.

[00:04:49]the jury.

[00:04:52]>> Sound is excellent today.

[00:04:58]>> Uh they've got their cash app and their V memo scrolling along the bottom of the feed. If you if you feel the the love for them, send them money for gas or whatever. That would be really sweet of you.

[00:05:11]Hear ye here. All person of any duty of the honorable judge John Frasier, Justice of Salem Superior Court from within the County of Essics, draw near.

[00:05:19]Give your attendance and you shall be heard. God save the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Court is now in session.

[00:05:24]You may be seated.

[00:05:24]>> God save us from the Commonwealth and do not please no spoilers if you already watched. Thanks.

[00:05:28]>> Okay. Good morning, jurors. Um before we begin, I'm going to ask you the questions I've asked the past couple of mornings. Has any member of the jury had any difficulty following my instructions not to discuss this case with anyone? No affirmative responses. Has any member of the jury read, seen, heard, or overheard anything from any source about any aspect of this case outside of this courtroom? No affirmative responses. And is there any other serious matter or concern bearing on your service as jurors in this case that any juror wishes to bring to the court's attention? No affirmative responses.

[00:06:00]Thank you.

[00:06:03]So jurors, thank you for serving on this jury. Jury service is a very important part of our democratic self-government.

[00:06:10]You're responsible to uphold the law and our principles of justice. That is what you promised to do at the start of this trial when you took your oath as jurors.

[00:06:19]You must carefully consider all of the evidence, decide who and what to believe, and decide whether the pro charged in this case. The final part of this trial will take place in three steps. I will give you instructions about the law for the specific charge in this case. Then the attorneys will make their closing arguments where they will highlight the evidence that they think is important and will argue in favor of a conclusion that they ask you to reach.

[00:06:48]Defense attorney will argue first and the prosecutor will argue last. After the closing arguments, I will give you general instructions that apply in every case. You will then work together to reach a verdict. Please pay close attention to my instructions. All of my instructions are important and you must follow all of them even if you not do not agree with them. To make sure I give you the instructions accurately, I will read them to you. You will also get a written copy so you can refer to them in the jury room during your deliberations.

[00:07:18]I will do my best to make sure that the instructions I give when speaking with you match the written instructions. If there is any difference between what I say aloud and what the written instructions say, please follow what I say aloud. Now, there is a fundamental rule that applies in all criminal cases, including this case. Every person his who is accused of a crime is presumed to be innocent of that crime. Ms. Medina is presumed innocent of the charge in this case. That means that you must consider Miss Medina to be innocent unless the prosecution has proved beyond a reasonable doubt through the evidence presented during this trial that Miss Medina committed the crime charge and that she did not act in self-defense. I will explain what I mean by reasonable doubt in just a moment. Now, just so I needed to explain to you as well, you will be addressing only one charge.

[00:08:09]There was only one charge remaining in this case, and that is the assault and battery um with a dangerous weapon, serious bodily injury. That's the only charge that will be decided by the jury today.

[00:08:19]>> That's interesting. I don't know if they dropped some charges because originally there there was there were two charges.

[00:08:23]There was a DV incident, too, but apparently it's just the assault with a deadly weapon charge causing bodily injury. Right.

[00:08:33]>> There's only one charge remaining in this case and that is the assault and battery um with a dangerous weapon, serious bodily injury. That's the only charge that will be decided by the jury today.

[00:08:44]>> Okay. Um similar to Kelsey Fitz Simmons, she's got assault and battery with a deadly weapon, but she didn't cause any injury to Nunan. So, I'm not sure what the what the possibility for a sentencing is for this. I'm going to have to look it up.

[00:08:57]Uh closings have not happened yet. We're a little bit behind. He's giving initial instructions to the jury. Defense will close first. Commonwealth will close second. Then he will give them further instructions. Here we go.

[00:09:08]>> Miss Medina does not have to do anything to convince you she is innocent. She does not have to explain anything. Miss Medina does not have to testify, call, or question witnesses or provide any evidence at all because you must presume she is innocent. Instead, it is up to the Commonwealth to prove the charge against Miss Medina beyond a reasonable doubt. This burden of proof never shifts to the defendant.

[00:09:33]After you have considered all the evidence carefully and fairly, if you have a reasonable doubt about Miss Medina's guilt on the particular charge, then your verdict must be not guilty on that charge. You may find Miss Medina guilty of a charge only if all 12 deliberating jurors agree that the Commonwealth has proved the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. So, the burden is on the Commonwealth to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Miss Medina is guilty of the charge made against her and that she failed to act in self-defense. What is proof beyond a reasonable doubt? The term is often used and probably pretty well understood, though it is not easily defined. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt does not mean the proof beyond all possible doubt, for everything in the lives of human beings is open to some possible or imaginary doubt. A charge is proved beyond a reasonable doubt if after you have compared and considered all of the evidence, you have in your mind and abiding conviction to a moral certainty that the charge is true. When we refer to moral certainty, we mean the highest degree of certainty possible in matters related to human affairs based solely on the evidence that has been put before you. In this case, I've told you that every person is presumed to be innocent until he or she is proved guilty and that the burden of proof is on the prosecutor. If you evaluate all the evidence and you still have a reasonable doubt remaining, the defendant is entitled to the benefit of that doubt and must be acquitted. It is not enough for the comm to establish a probability, even a strong probability that the defendant is more likely to be guilty than not guilty. That is not enough.

[00:11:10]Instead, the evidence must convince you of the defendant's guilt to a reasonable and moral certainty. A certainty that convinces your understanding and satisfies your reason and judgment as jurors who are sworn to act conscientiously on the evidence. That is what we mean by proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Now, for the one charge against Miss Medina, there are certain things that the Commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt to show that Miss Medina is guilty. I will explain these elements to you now.

[00:11:40]Miss Medina is charged with having committed an assault and battery with a dangerous weapon causing serious bodily injury. In order to prove Ms. Medina guilty of this offense, the Commonwealth must prove the following four things beyond a reasonable doubt. First, that Ms. Medina touched the person of Lewis Medina, however slightly, without having the right or excuse to do so. Second, that Ms. Medina intended to touch Lewis Medina. Third, that the touching was done with a dangerous weapon. A dangerous weapon is an item which is designed for the purpose of causing serious injury or death. I instruct you as a matter of law that a knife is a dangerous weapon. And fourth, that the assault and battery by means of a dangerous weapon caused serious bodily injury. Serious bodily injury is defined as bodily injury that results in a permanent disfigurement, loss or impairment of a bodily function, limb, or organ, or substantial risk of death.

[00:12:37]The Commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

[00:12:40]>> They haven't really shown any proof of his injuries. So, not that we saw, not that we were able to see any testimony about it. It may have happened when we couldn't watch it.

[00:12:49]>> That Ms. Medina intended to touch Louisis Medina with the dangerous weapon in the sense that the defendant consciously and deliberately intended to touch the touching to occur and that the touching was not merely accidental or negligent.

[00:13:02]>> Actually, we did hear that he was he had surgery. So, we did hear that part.

[00:13:06]>> Commonwealth is not required to prove that Miss Medina specifically intended to cause injury to Lewis Medina. Now, in this case, there is a question as to whether Ms. Medina lawfully used force to defend uh to defend herself against an attack. Therefore, I will provide you with instructions concerning the law of self-defense. A person is not guilty if they acted in lawful self-defense. In addition to proving the elements of the offense beyond a reasonable doubt, it is also the Commonwealth's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense.

[00:13:41]There is no burden on the defendant to prove that they were justified in defending themselves. You must find the defendant not guilty if the Commonwealth fails to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not justified in acting in self-defense. The law does not permit retaliation or revenge. The lawful exercise of self-defense arises from necessity and ends when the necessity ends. An individual may only use force sufficient to prevent occurrence or reoccurrence of the attack. As I told you, because this case raises a question as to whether the defendant lawfully used deadly force to defend against an attack, the Commonwealth has the burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt both the elements of the offense that I discussed before and that the defendant did not act in lawful self-defense when using that deadly force. Again, I instruct you as a matter of law that using a knife is deadly force. To prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense when using deadly force, the Commonwealth must prove at least one of the following things beyond a reasonable doubt.

[00:14:46]First, that the defendant did not actually believe that she was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm from which she could save herself only by using deadly force. that a reasonable person in the same circumstances as the defendant would not reasonably have believed that she was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm from which she could save herself only by using deadly force.

[00:15:08]Three, that the defendant did not use or attempt to use all proper and reasonable means under the circumstances to avoid physical combat before resorting to the use of deadly force. Four, that the defendant used more force than was reasonably necessary in the circumstances. And five, if you find the defendant was the first to use or threatened to use deadly force that she did not withdraw in good faith from the conflict and clearly communicate by words of conduct her intention to end the confrontation without any use or additional use of force. We're going to now explain >> and that is why I think she did not choose a bench trial because she had the opportunity to retreat and she didn't and under the letter of the law she could be guilty. Uh, Sierra, I saw what you were putting in the chat that she could get five years. I'm looking at the statute and it says she could get up to 15 years. So, I'll pull up the statute if we have time after this, but I just wanted to correct that. So, listen to that again. Threatened to use deadly force that she did not withdraw in good faith from the conflict and clearly communicate by words or conduct her intention to end the confrontation without any use or additional use of force. We're going to now explain each of these ways in which the Commonwealth can disprove the that the defendant acted in self-defense in more detail and remind you that the Commonwealth may satisfy its burden of proving that the defendant did not act in self-defense by proving at least one of these things beyond a reasonable doubt. Again, one way the Commonwealth can prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense is by proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not actually believe she was in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm from which she could save herself only by using deadly force. Another way that the Commonwealth may prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense is by proving beyond a reasonable doubt that a reasonable person in the same circumstances as the defendant would not reasonably have believed that they were in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm from which they could save themselves only by using deadly force. A person cannot lawfully act in self-defense unless they are attacked or are immediately or are immediately about to be attacked. And there must be an overt act, words, a gesture, or some other action that could give rise to an actual and reasonable belief of immediate danger of death or >> she was in the process of being beaten.

[00:17:35]She was in the process of being beaten.

[00:17:37]There were bruises all over her body.

[00:17:38]There's pictures of the day of and the day after. Uh she was clearly beaten. He had been beating her for 28 years. Three witnesses came in to testify that we did not get to see yesterday. I'll summarize their testimony for you after. relatives and co-workers of Lucy uh who saw evidence of this. And Lewis Medina never gave his account of what happened that night. And so, did he fall on the knife?

[00:18:02]Did he yell at her to go get a knife out of the kitchen and she got the knife and then she came out and he fell on it? Nobody knows. So, that could be, you know, the jury could nullify as well. So, we'll see what happens here.

[00:18:17]>> Serious bodily, huh? The Commonwealth may prove that there was not an actual or reasonable belief of immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm by providing by proving beyond a reasonable doubt that there was no overt act that gave rise to those beliefs. The right to self-defense arises again from necessity and ends when the necessity ends. This means that a person does not act in lawful self-defense when they use force to pursue their attacker to retaliate or out of anger after an attacker has been neutralized or disarmed or to prevent a future attack. The Commonwealth may prove that there was not an actual or reasonable concern for immediate personal safety by proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was no longer in any immediate danger and instead use force against their attacker for revenge or to ward off any possible attack in the indefinite future. In considering whether the defendant actually believed that they were in immediate danger of death or serious bodily harm and the reasonleness of the belief that they were in in that danger, you may consider all of the evidence relating to the defendant's state of mind at the time. To determine the defendant's state of mind, you can may consider any threats or acts of violence committed by the alleged victim, but only if the defendant knew of those threats or or acts of violence. As I told you, among the ways the Commonwealth may prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense is by proving beyond a reasonable doubt, either that the defendant did not actually have a concern for her immediate personal safety or that a reasonable person in the defendant's circumstances would not have that concern. Evidence of the defendant's mental condition at the time of the offense is relevant to determining the defendant's belief about the harm she faced. So, in determining whether the defendant actually had a concern for her immediate personal safety, you may consider any evidence of the defendant's mental condition. Another way the comworth may prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense is by provable doubt that the defendant did not use or attempt to use all proper and reasonable means under the circumstances to avoid physical combat before re before resorting to the use of deadly force. In determining whether the defendant used all reasonable means to avoid physical combat before resorting to the use of deadly force depends on all the circumstances including the relative physical capabilities of the combatants, the weapons used, room to maneuver or escape from the area and the location of the assault. A person must retreat unless they are reason unless they reasonably believe they cannot safely do so. A person need not place themselves in danger or use every means of escape short of death before resorting to self-defense.

[00:21:05]Another way that the comm may prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense is by proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant used more force than was reasonably necessary under all the circumstances. In considering whether the force used by a person was reasonable under the circumstances, you may consider evidence of the relative physical capabilities of the combatants, the number of persons who were involved on each side, the characteristics of any weapon used, the availability of room to maneuver, the manner in which the deadly force was used, the scope of the threat presented, or any other evidence you deem relevant to the reasonleness of the person's conduct under the circumstances. A final way the Commonwealth may prove that the defendant did not act in self-defense is by proving beyond a reasonable doubt one, that the defendant was the first to use or threaten to use deadly force, and two, that the defendant did not withdraw in good faith from the conflict and clearly communicate by words or conduct their intention to withdraw and end the confrontation without any force.

[00:22:06]Self-defense cannot be claimed by a defendant who was the first to use or threatened deadly force because a defendant must have used or attempted to use all proper and reasonable means under the circumstances to avoid physical combat before resorting to the use of deadly force. If any element of the crime has not been proved beyond a reasonable doubt or the Commonwealth did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense, you must find the defendant not guilty. I just have to speak with the uh council for uh briefly before we proceed to closing arguments.

[00:22:41]Miss you councel.

[00:22:43]>> Okay, we can skip f a little bit.

[00:22:46]>> So jurors at this point we will um >> that's Lucy Medina. Um this is her from the back. She is visibly shaking.

[00:22:54]Visibly shaking. I don't know if she's crying actually, but she's physically shaking. Watch. So upsetting.

[00:23:07]The judge is not trying to confuse the jury. Those are the actual jury instructions. They're required under law to be read and the jury will have a copy into the jury room >> so they can read them and go over them again. That's why it sounded like he was reading really fast, but they're allowed to bring the instructions in with them.

[00:23:26]>> Start with closing arguments and uh council for Ms. Medina will go first.

[00:23:31]Here's Hank Brennan.

[00:23:43]It's 2026 and we're still talking about whether or not domestic violence happens.

[00:23:52]It is hard to believe in 2026 we're still debating what a battered woman is. that someone has to see the abuser physically punch the victim.

[00:24:10]In 2026, the Commonwealth is placing Lucy Medina before you, suggesting that a person who has been battered for 28 years, who finally says, "No, stop.

[00:24:27]You can't keep hitting me.

[00:24:29]In 2026, a woman who tries to protect herself faces criminal charges.

[00:24:39]And there's questions asked of witnesses. Did you actually see him punch her?

[00:24:45]No. I saw the bruises and the marks and the scratches and the flowers. Not once, not twice, not one year, for years.

[00:24:56]And we're debating is somebody's a battered woman.

[00:25:02]You heard from Dr. Zizelle, a fantastic, experienced, thoughtful, kind, 38 years of experience, and he came to the stand and he told you about some of what you might have known, some what you might not have known about a woman who has been battered.

[00:25:21]And he was asked, "Why didn't you meet with Miss Medina? You should have met with Mrs. Mina. She wasn't evasive.

[00:25:28]She was afraid.

[00:25:30]She was battered. She was humiliated.

[00:25:34]And he had an opinion with no doubt.

[00:25:36]That woman is a battered woman on his education, his experience, his diagnosis.

[00:25:44]And you know what? He did meet her in this courtroom like you do. And he watched her for hours as he testified.

[00:25:52]And when he watched her, it did not undermine his conclusion one spec. What he saw solidified what he already knew.

[00:26:04]And as wonderful as Dr. Zel is, we don't need an expert of 38 years experience.

[00:26:09]The best seats are the seats right here.

[00:26:13]The seats you were chosen to sit in.

[00:26:15]Just eat.

[00:26:17]And you could see.

[00:26:19]And you could hear. And you could feel if there's any dispute, it is over. This is a battered woman. And she had a right.

[00:26:34]She had a right to say no. She had a right to defend herself. She had a right.

[00:26:44]This woman is in the wrong seat.

[00:26:49]She shouldn't be sitting here.

[00:26:53]She should be sitting there. A witness, a victim.

[00:26:58]Where's the victim witness advocates?

[00:27:00]Where's the support for the 28 years of abuse? She's sitting here because the government put her here and put a label on her. She's a defendant and they did it like that. They investigate.

[00:27:12]Did they show due diligence? Did they care?

[00:27:17]their decision was over before it started. Did they actually sit back and try to think what actually happened and why did it happen? I mentioned that to you in the opening. They're going to come in and tell you what they saw after. What actually happened and why did it happen?

[00:27:36]They didn't do much.

[00:27:38]They went to the scene. They take pictures.

[00:27:42]Now, the medical personnel spoke to Louisis Medina. He could speak clearly.

[00:27:46]You're going to see the records.

[00:27:49]And he said, "I cut myself.

[00:27:52]I cut myself." Did he? Is he lying to cover for her? Is he telling the truth?

[00:27:56]Nobody would know because when the police and the government received information, they did nothing. They went to the hospital. He was intubated. He couldn't talk. They didn't go back. It was CO.

[00:28:09]We already charged Lucy. Don't go back.

[00:28:11]Don't try.

[00:28:13]What do you mean by you stabbed yourself? How did you stab yourself? Did you take the knife from her? Did you grab her arm? Did you struggle? Did you knock over furniture? Nobody cared.

[00:28:21]Nobody cared because she was already in that seat and she was going to stay there as she is today before you. That was it.

[00:28:31]There was an offer.

[00:28:32]>> Ironic, isn't it? That Karen Reed was in the wrong seat, too.

[00:28:39]>> As she is today before you, that was it.

[00:28:43]There was an offer at the scene. Didn't have a great memory. Basically, she said something about stabbing. Basically, but then when I questioned him, basically, you don't speak Spanish. You heard her on the 911 tape moments before we see her in this catatonic, terrified, turbulent state. And he admits, I don't know what she really said. I don't know verbatim. I get the gist of it. The gist of it.

[00:29:09]this woman who speaks Spanish distraught through this terror. I got the gist of it and that was it. Okay, from followup. Don't look for facts.

[00:29:20]Don't look for details. And at the scene, they tell you that they talked to neighbors. You didn't hear from one neighbor that they went to a door. You heard from Miss Sanchez, but later from another officer, you heard Miss Sanchez came to them. They didn't go knock on door. She came to them. What other neighbor did they speak to?

[00:29:35]What other tenant did they speak to?

[00:29:39]nothing. They didn't care.

[00:29:42]So they bring Miss Medina to the station.

[00:29:47]And when they bring her to the station, understand she has been beaten, battered again. She has bruises covering her body.

[00:30:03]She is in pain. She's afraid.

[00:30:06]>> She's got a chalk. Spanish as a primary language in that interview. I'm not going to be as kind as Dr. Zizel.

[00:30:16]Was it misogynistic?

[00:30:19]Is that too much of a word for me to use? Is it? You have a woman who helps her take off her clothes.

[00:30:26]She's in basically a piece of paper.

[00:30:30]She's distraught. She's emotional. You see her staring, unattached, detached.

[00:30:36]Why isn't a woman in the room? You have two men. And they were soft spoken. They weren't nice. All she cared about was her husband, her king. Not herself. Her king. Is he okay? Oh, maybe.

[00:30:52]There's no empathy. There's no understanding. There's no search for what actually happened.

[00:30:59]On that tape, the investigator uses the word stabbed eight times, trying to force those words in her mouth. And she knows force emotionally and physically. And she keeps on saying, "I don't know. Where did you stab him?" "I don't know."

[00:31:16]"Where was he?" "I don't know." You never heard her say on that tape, "I stabbed him." You don't hear that.

[00:31:25]It's their words. And she says she does not know. And if you think for a second she's not being honest, watch her emotion. Think of what Dr. Zazelle said.

[00:31:36]She could have defended herself and talked about how she incurred all of these wounds and blamed Louis Medina.

[00:31:43]She did a disassociative state, a catatonic state.

[00:31:49]And so what the government has for evidence comes from that interview.

[00:31:53]Think about her demeanor and interaction, that stare, that distance, and think about the attitude of the investigators. You have to listen. But one of them calls her hun. Hun.

[00:32:11]Here's another thing you might notice in the tape. When they ask her what was happening and she says, "He beats me." Detective goes, "Oh, you cheated on you." Scorned woman. Of course, that's the case. He cheated on you. No, no, he beats me. That is their first instinct and impression and bias as they're speaking to her. Lover scorn has nothing to do with it. That's how they treat her. That's how they think.

[00:32:38]Watch when she's giving Miranda. Do you understand these complicated rights?

[00:32:41]She's staring at the table. Her head, you don't know which way it's shaking.

[00:32:44]Oh, you agreed to that one. You agreed to that one.

[00:32:49]So, the government is going to take two fragmented sentences and try to build a case beyond a reasonable doubt. They're not even close. They're going to say to you that when she came outside with a knife, she walked up and stabbed him.

[00:33:03]Now, if she did, if that was the truth, and it's not, she would have had every right to do that because she had a right to defend herself. But that is not the facts. Not even close. I warned you in the opening. You weren't going to hear any evidence that she walked up and she stabbed him. She came outside with a knife and said, "You have to stop hitting me. Please stop hitting me."

[00:33:24]They have no idea, no evidence. They should not even argue an inference about what happens after that because all we know is she says, "You need to stop hitting me." And at some point she calls 911 and there's a wound. How does it happen? We can speculate, but we're not supposed to. the audacity of her to challenge him. Did he attack her?

[00:33:46]Was she trying to fend him off? Did he grab the knife and hit himself? Did she fall on the ground and hold it up? You don't know because the government didn't do their homework. You don't hear from an expert on wounds. You don't hear anything about the angle and the position that she was in. You don't hear whether or not he could have pushed the knife in fighting for it. You don't know anything because they didn't do anything. And they're going to ask you with absolutely no evidence to take her from when she was saying, "You can't hit me anymore holding a knife to somehow her stabbing him." That sequence is absent. But what we do know is there is a struggle. There was a struggle. Now remember, she told the police she got punched twice. It's all she remembered.

[00:34:32]Cut on her lip. Cut on her lip. And then another punch.

[00:34:38]The struggle must have been before he was impaled. It must have been because if there was two punches, her injuries are far more than two strikes. We know there was a struggle in that backyard, tipped over Habachi, flowers strewn, furniture turned over. She said she threw a candle at him at first. That wasn't enough to stop him. The candle was not enough to stop him. We know there is a struggle.

[00:35:08]And then we know there is a number of wounds. A number. Her lip, her hands. They don't have anybody come in to explain defensive wounds.

[00:35:22]Her chest.

[00:35:22]>> He's showing the photos to the jury. Not the giant chalk, but he's showing the photos as he flips through and points to each one.

[00:35:34]Her neck, her face, her back, her elbows.

[00:35:55]scrapes dragged her knees.

[00:36:06]This was a struggle and they can't tell you who started the physical struggle, who grabbed who, who touched who first, who escalated. They cannot tell you.

[00:36:18]They ask you just to jump and fill in the blanks. You cannot do that with evidence. You cannot guess or have an inference. You need fact. And they don't have it. And that is the heart of their case. Asking you to speculate.

[00:36:34]Asking you to speculate. Ignore what Lewis Medina said to the paramedic to the trauma doctor. I did it myself.

[00:36:43]Ignore it. Throw it out. They're asking you to do that. And so when you think about who started this physical altercation, there's a word in law, first aggressor. You can consider evidence about who was the first aggressor. Do you think it was Lewis Medina who started the physical altercation or do you think it was Lucy Medina? Because if it was Lewis Medina, the government can't disprove self-defense. They can't. They won't because it didn't. But they can't. So think about first aggressor.

[00:37:16]A lifetime of subservience. A lifetime of kindness. A once very happy, thoughtful, kind woman who never lifted a finger to her king in 28 years. You think she was the first aggressor?

[00:37:36]And then contrast that with Lewis Medina before he even met before he even met her.

[00:37:44]Cone in defense. They agree.

[00:37:47]Prior to meeting Lucy Medina, 1998, Lewis Medina was dating a different woman and had a child with that woman.

[00:37:54]During Mr. Medina's relationship with this prior woman, Mr. Medina beat and batted her.

[00:38:00]They agreed >> and that was a stipulation that was read in open court. The Commonwealth agreed to that by stipulation so that the woman who was beaten by him prior to Lucy who had a child with him wouldn't have to come in and testify and relive that trauma all over again.

[00:38:19]And then how long did it take when he met Miss Medina? 5 months. Dragging her into her mother's home in a back room and beating her so bad. The welts in her face. She's so embarrassed, confused, she doesn't leave the room for days.

[00:38:32]Who's the first aggressor?

[00:38:35]I can't go through the litany of 28 years, nor do we want to have to suffer through that.

[00:38:41]But there's no boundaries for this first aggressor. She's pregnant with their child and he's pushing her down in a tub.

[00:38:51]The indignity of taking her out like a piece of trash. Is there any doubt who the first aggressor was that night?

[00:39:07]When we think about the first aggressor, we also can consider what her friends and co-workers saw.

[00:39:17]I don't want to detail. We heard it plenty. It's gut-wrenching.

[00:39:22]The bruises, the flowers, the weeks off of work.

[00:39:28]And if it wasn't enough, well, that information was provided to the government back in 2000, 2000.

[00:39:37]They didn't bring one witness in to testify. They didn't make one phone call to try to find out why this happened.

[00:39:46]They did not even bring the witnesses in for your consideration. We have no burden of proof. That's the law. You've heard from the court. We have no burden of proof, but we kind of do it because they weren't going to do it. See, they're putting on a case. It's a search for the truth. All the evidence. They're putting on a case. If we didn't bring these witnesses to you, you would never know. You would never know. We tried. We alerted them. We asked them. They ignored it. They ignored it. And so, you heard from Ruth. You heard from Kursby.

[00:40:22]you heard what they saw over those years and that can help you when you consider who initiated the physical combat who was the first aggressor and if that's not enough remarkably remarkably you heard from Lewis Medina's attorney attorney Morat Eran came in on behalf of his client and they actually waved part of their attorney client privilege and attorney shared with you and I have his words of baiten because they are powerful This is what his client told him to tell us. He frequently and violently abused his wife.

[00:41:03]He struggled with severe alcohol dependency.

[00:41:07]He expressed it was important for everybody to know, especially when he was under the influence of alcohol. He frequently brutalized his wife.

[00:41:20]that those are the words of their so-called victim in this case. And attorney Arcan came in and you saw his diligence and his thoughtfulness and his vetting process to make sure there was no undue influence or trying to help that he believed this to be accurate.

[00:41:36]And by the way, asked how much he was going to make. Doesn't seem like he's going to charge a dime. Why would he come in for free on behalf of a client and give you that powerful information unless it was dead-on accurate?

[00:41:54]And so the other part of the government's argument, other than trying to get you to do some guesswork about stabbing, which they can't prove, they can't is they're going to say Lucy Medina should have walked away, should have ran away.

[00:42:09]She didn't use all means to avoid it because she said in that interview when she's staring off into space worried about her husband >> autoatonic >> cold afraid. She said, "I could have walked away. It could have ended." And they're going to take that one statement out of context and say she doesn't have a right to self-defense.

[00:42:29]She could have walked away.

[00:42:32]Where was she going to go? If she could have walked away, wouldn't have she walked away 28 years ago before the beatings and the brutalization and the pounding, where was she going to go?

[00:42:45]And when you think about whether she could walk away, I asked Dr. Zel under the circumstances, could she walk away?

[00:42:55]In his opinion, his professional opinion, he said unequivocally, no. Now, why why couldn't she walk away? Well, she's in the middle of a moment of a beatdown.

[00:43:07]We have no idea the sequence of how it happened.

[00:43:12]And we also know that when you think about whether she could have walked away, you have to. You're entitled to you can consider her state of mind. You can consider Lucy how she was thinking and perceiving things on that awful night. Which means we have to go back and we don't want to keep going back.

[00:43:32]But we have to go back. This isn't two men on a street and they're going to get in a fist fight and one person pulls out a gun and they could have walked away.

[00:43:38]This is her home.

[00:43:41]This is her life. This is where she's been living and beaten for over two decades. You get to consider her state of mind. We have that privilege to consider a state of mind. all the beatings, all of the emotional abuse, all of the flowers, the honeymoon, the luring, the grooming. And his words, "If you leave, I will kill you."

[00:44:10]And they're going to argue to you that she should have ran and gone somewhere and fled.

[00:44:21]You are allowed to consider the condition of a person who was a battered woman and that is Lucy Medina. You're allowed to consider that when you consider whether she reasonably in her mind could have walked away from anything. You can consider her mental health diagnosises that she didn't have before she met Lucy Medina and that is anxiety disorder, PTSD.

[00:44:47]You can consider that she was fearing not just that moment but the past beatings and the future beatings that would come. You can consider all of that. You can consider in her mind her knowledge of his power and dominance.

[00:45:00]You can consider in her mind the threats that he would kill her.

[00:45:07]In her mind it wasn't a matter of if. It was a matter of when and how bad. And didn't you hear witnesses say as time went on it got worse and worse. Government might say in the interview she said it hadn't happened for three years. Well, people abuse protect their abusers. It did happen within three years because you heard from the witnesses it happened right before co about six months before this incident. Last time they saw her all bruised up.

[00:45:36]That's why those words in a video like that are dangerous because she's always protecting. She's covering. She's hiding. She's trying to protect her king.

[00:45:52]She couldn't walk away emotion. Remember the study with the dogs and the zapping and after they get zapped, they don't move when the door opens. She emotionally couldn't get away. She physically couldn't get away. And the beauty of having a jury is we have collective experiences and have all different experiences.

[00:46:10]If you've never experienced the catastrophic consequences of domestic violence and it's never been part of your world and I am happy to.

[00:46:25]But if you've seen it, if you've seen it and you know what it looks like and you've been part of it, then you know she couldn't walk away. You know, so when you deliberate and you share your common experiences, for those of you who know, if someone doesn't have that experience, take the time to share with them and explain to them why Lucy Medina simply could not escape.

[00:47:00]Help them understand At the beginning of this case, we made some promises to you. Although we have no burden of proof, we promised to show you that the government could not show you because they had no evidence how Mr. Medina created or had a laceration in his throat. We told you that. It's exactly what we showed. We told you it is important to understand the why.

[00:47:38]Everything that comes before it and we brought you witnesses and an attorney and an expert.

[00:47:45]The government didn't bring anything.

[00:47:48]This case was closed that night. I had to ask how many detectives and officers who's the lead detective. Finally, Mr. Negian comes in at the end, says he's the lead detective, knows nothing about the case, didn't do anything because of COVID, and never followed up. And had he known about all this stuff, he would have done something about it.

[00:48:09]But they didn't tell him.

[00:48:12]They didn't care.

[00:48:14]And so we're here now before you.

[00:48:18]And I said something in the opening statement that I've given a lot of thought to. I said Lucy Medina stole Lucy Medina's dignity.

[00:48:38]I'd like to reconsider that. He didn't steal her dignity. Despite how she feels, Lucy Medina, she has great dignity.

[00:48:52]And I know Dr. Isel said hope. She lives day by day without hope.

[00:49:01]Well, I have hope for Lucy Medina because she is resilient.

[00:49:06]She is persistent.

[00:49:09]She is kind. She may not have hope yesterday.

[00:49:13]She may not have hope today.

[00:49:16]But she has you. She has each and every one of you. and the government did nothing. The reason why we have jury trials is we have good people from the community who care, who think, who discuss.

[00:49:34]And we have great faith you will do that.

[00:49:38]And so Medina has her dignity. She has hope.

[00:49:45]And she has each and every one of you.

[00:49:48]Thank you.

[00:49:51]Thank you.

[00:49:57]>> Hope. She has you and she has hope.

[00:50:04]>> Good morning.

[00:50:05]>> See how the ADA is going to spin this into his favor. This is Patrick B.

[00:50:08]>> I just had to walk away and go upstairs.

[00:50:12]Then let it be. Let it be. Just forget about it. Don't say nothing.

[00:50:18]That's all she had to do. There's one thing I want to address in that presentation you just heard.

[00:50:26]Commonwealth, no one in this courtroom saying that domestic violence doesn't exist. No one in this courtroom is saying somebody nobody suffers from domestic violence.

[00:50:39]Nobody's saying that.

[00:50:42]The Commonwealth is asking to consider all of the circumstances in this case.

[00:50:47]all of the circumstances in this case and acknowledging that that there are battered women, that there is domestic violence, this defendant is still guilty.

[00:50:59]You didn't hear from Lewis. That's true.

[00:51:03]You did hear from a very important witness about what happened. You heard from Mrs. Medina in that interview that we all watched. And I ask you, and I'm sure the defense would agree, please watch that interview again. Listen to it closely.

[00:51:20]And if you go back and listen to that interview again, I ask you to consider closely not what she says, but how many times she says certain things and what appears to be top of mind for her. And obviously, she's concerned about Lewis.

[00:51:36]She's concerned about his condition. She wants to know if he's going to be okay.

[00:51:41]But other than that, what is she thinking about over and over and over again? Why didn't I walk away? Go upstairs or go to bed.

[00:51:54]If she knew that she could have just let it be >> I mean, do we really need to point out to him because he's such a [ __ ] that that was her internal monologue.

[00:52:05]>> Wow. I'm twitching again. My eye just started twitching.

[00:52:10]then she should have.

[00:52:13]If she knew that she could have just let it be, then she should have.

[00:52:18]The defense claims that Mrs. Medina couldn't remember what happened that night, but becau because of her mental state. You heard from Dr. Zizelle, who'd never met her in person before yesterday, started evaluating her four and a half years after this event.

[00:52:37]But she does remember what happened. She remembered that night when she talked to the police. She told you herself.

[00:52:43]She knew what she was doing that night.

[00:52:46]She remembers getting off work at 3:30.

[00:52:49]She remembers that her and Louiswis were outside hanging out on the patio. She remembers they were cooking out. If you listen to the interview, she specifically says that he was planning on cooking fat.

[00:53:01]She remembers that they were drinking.

[00:53:03]She told you herself she had over five beers. She remembers she was taking tequila shots. She remembers Lewis was drinking, but she didn't think he was drunk.

[00:53:13]She told you that they were having an argument. She even remembers what the argument was about. Regular things about their kids specifically. She didn't want she the argument was about comparing their kids what she didn't like. She remembers throwing a candle. She remembers she went inside to get a knife. She remembers Louis stayed outside when she went to get it.

[00:53:37]She remembers she came outside because she was trying to say, "You're not getting me." And she's right. He is not allowed to hit her. That is horrible.

[00:53:45]Horrible.

[00:53:48]But she still returned to the argument with the knife.

[00:53:51]>> That is horrible.

[00:53:54]Horrible.

[00:53:56]Your victim admitted through his attorney that he had been beating her for 28 years. You stipulated that this monster beat the woman he was with before her and that's how flippant you are. Hank Brennan said to the jurors, he said, "Go back there and share your personal experiences. If you've never experienced or know anyone who's experienced DV, then I feel very lucky for you, but many of you probably haven't. So go back and share your experiences with your other jurors." And this guy says he's not allowed to hit her.

[00:54:34]Women of Massachusetts, my sympathies.

[00:54:37]You are living in a handmaid's tail state. Listen to that again.

[00:54:44]He hit her. He's not allowed to hit her.

[00:54:49]Get it? She remembers she came outside because she was trying to say, "You're not getting me." And she's right. He is not allowed to hit her. That is horrible.

[00:54:58]>> It's horrible.

[00:54:59]>> It's horrible.

[00:55:02]>> But she still returned to the argument with the knife.

[00:55:05]She knows that it happened outside. Just listen to what she says. It happened outside because then he ran inside and I ran after him.

[00:55:15]Even if she was having issues or she was suffering from from any mental disorders, it defies the evidence in the case to think that she doesn't remember what happened that night.

[00:55:26]You heard from Francis Nova, first officer on scene. She's yelling at him to save her husband. Tells him that she stabbed her husband. She knew that she stabbed him.

[00:55:38]In that interview, the officers give her so many chances to say what happened.

[00:55:42]They're patient with her. They're asking her if there's anything else that she want that that they should know. They ask her about her injuries. They take pictures of her injuries. They try as hard as they can under the circumstances to find out what happened. And I would disagree with Dr. Da Zizelle. I would say that interview did yield fruit.

[00:56:05]Although it was difficult, she was upset and she was distraught. She did provide them with important information about what happened. She remembers she just didn't want to admit it. She didn't want to admit it to herself.

[00:56:19]Let's talk about Dr. Zizelle.

[00:56:22]clearly a very smart, wellspoken, accomplished doctor. But think about the conditions under which he evaluated Mrs. Medina. And I know there were some difficulties due to her unwillingness to meet with him or show herself. But the fact of the matter is all those meetings were either phone calls, just their voices, or FaceTime. FaceTime with Mrs. Medina on her cell phone. Dr. Zizel only able to see the top of her body.

[00:56:49]>> Uhuh. And >> and Dr. Dr. Zizel agreed not ideal circumstances as a psychologist under which to conduct an evaluation.

[00:56:58]And I know he had some things to say about the police interview, something he himself admitted was Monday Monday morning quarterbacking.

[00:57:06]But at least they met with her face to face when they conducted that interview and very patiently and kindly attempted to extract from her what happened so they could find the truth. Dr. Ziselle had never seen her in person before yesterday.

[00:57:20]Now, do you think under those circumstances he was in a position to diagnose somebody's mental state four and a half years after the event occurred?

[00:57:30]And he did sure have a lot to say about Luis Medina, man he'd never met, never tried to speak to based on information from three people who didn't know Mr. Medina. Well, >> guess who else Louis Medina didn't speak to? you or the police or anyone.

[00:57:50]His sighing is making me crazy. And the sigh emoji for Judge Canon has just entered re-entered the chat.

[00:57:59]Why do you think she was meeting with Dr. Zizelle on FaceTime from her car?

[00:58:03]Sir, because that monster would not let her leave the house. Do you think that she would have been able or allowed to go meet a doctor?

[00:58:15]for an in-person visit. Sir, do you know nothing about the power wheel of control?

[00:58:27]Tell us you know nothing about the dynamics of a DV relationship without telling us you know nothing about it and you didn't listen to one word that Dr. Zizel said. And the judge, in my opinion, looks horrified. And this poor court clerk to the right of your screen.

[00:58:44]I'm not sure what exactly her position is. And I don't want to if she's not a court clerk, I don't want to, you know, demote her, but my I have watched her throughout this trial and she has been holding in.

[00:58:59]She's horrified in my opinion.

[00:59:01]Horrified.

[00:59:07]This is so triggering, but it needs to be seen. Share it.

[00:59:11]The Commonwealth of Massachusetts did not want you to see it. Lo, Court TV has a camera in there.

[00:59:19]So many of you emailed Court TV. You commented on their streams. You said, "Please live stream this." They wrote back to you saying, "Yeah, we're not going to do that because we're really focused on Corey Richens right now.

[00:59:28]That's the one the only trial that we're covering live." When meanwhile, they just had three live streaming at the same time. They had Corey Richens, they had Colin Gray, and they had um Dale Warner and they've got a camera there, but they don't want you to see it.

[00:59:46]Luckily for us, they let law girls, not attorneys, plug into their feed today so that we could get this feed cuz we care.

[00:59:54]Because we care about Lucy Medina, even though Essex County sure as hell doesn't.

[01:00:00]Just chalk up another win for yourselves, right? It's all about the conviction. And it's not about getting to the truth.

[01:00:06]This happened in 2020. It's now 2026.

[01:00:08]And that's how long it took this case to go to trial.

[01:00:12]Court TV said, "No, we're not going to do it. We're not going to do it. Thanks for your interest, but no." And they're there anyway.

[01:00:20]All they did was release dribbs and drabs. I don't even know if they'll release the closings to you, but the Venmo for law girls not attorneys in their cash app is scrolling below their live feed that the Court TV camera person was kind enough to let them plug into so that we could see it.

[01:00:38]This guy's really pissing me off.

[01:00:42]You know, man he'd never met, never tried to speak to based on information from three people who didn't know Mr. Medina well.

[01:00:52]You heard from the three witnesses, all um friends with Lucy, worked with her 15 years, the Social Security Administration, her cousin, who obviously has known her since she was born, and they saw her with bruises, >> saw her wearing sweaters, she was taking work off. Nobody's disputing anything she said. But I would just suggest to you, ladies and gentlemen, they didn't really know what was going on in the relationship.

[01:01:20]And by their own admission, when they attempted to speak to Lucy about it, she never wanted to talk about her personal life, she'd tell them to butt out if they tried to ask.

[01:01:31]No one's asking you to like Luis Medina.

[01:01:34]No one's saying that he did nothing wrong. Obviously, no matter what was going on, Lucy and Luis have had a complicated relationship.

[01:01:43]>> They've been together for a long time.

[01:01:45]>> The judge is all of us right now.

[01:01:49]Do you think he has daughters? I do.

[01:01:54]>> You heard all the evidence. Again, no one's asking you to think that he was not at fault. No one's saying that he's a wonderful person. You don't have to like him. But he didn't get to to serve to get stabbed in the neck, suffer from the injuries. You heard about the blood you saw pictures of, blood on the patio, blood leading to the to the door to the apartment, blood on the threshold, blood on the front on the door into the apartment, blood down the hallway, blood in the kitchen.

[01:02:22]>> Did you test the blood? Do you know whose blood it was? Cuz she was full of blood, too, from the beating he gave her. Did you give her medical attention?

[01:02:29]Oh, no. You didn't. You didn't give her medical attention.

[01:02:34]Did anybody test the blood?

[01:02:37]May have been her blood, dude. Just wow.

[01:02:46]Stop sniffling. Get >> Melendez and Francis Nova told you about Mr. Medina when they arrived on scene.

[01:02:52]And again, think about what Mrs. Medina told you in the interview. These issues and again, nobody's saying that.

[01:03:01]Obviously, Mrs. Medina does not deserve to get hurt. did not observe to get abused. No, nothing like that. Of course not. That's horrible.

[01:03:09]>> Horrible.

[01:03:10]>> But I ask you to consider the information that the officers had the night of this incident as they were trying to extract this information from Lucy. The information that they gave that she gave them was that this happened for several years. Was she trying to protect him? Maybe. That's the information that they had.

[01:03:31]And again, when you make the choice to leave an argument, even if it's turned physical, go to another location, grab a weapon, and come back to that argument that you had just left. You're using more force than was necessary. You're not taking reasonable steps to escape or to leave the situation. And she told you she did leave the situation. She went inside to the kitchen and he was still outside.

[01:03:57]This was not self-defense.

[01:03:59]She didn't leave the argument. She used more force than is necessary. As I told you at the beginning of this trial, no one is saying that the defendant had no right to defend herself. But as you heard in the jury instructions just just now, the law does not permit retaliation or revenge. The need to protect yourself ends when that necessity ends. And there's limits of what you can do to defend yourself. You heard about ways that the Commonwealth can disprove um self-defense.

[01:04:33]Specifically, the defendant did not use or attempt to use all proper and reasonable means under the circumstances to avoid physical combat before resorting to the use of deadly force.

[01:04:42]And separately that the defendant used more force than was reasonably necessary in the circumstances. I'd suggest that was the ca both those circumstances were the case here.

[01:04:54]You saw that yard. You heard about where they were. She told you herself she didn't use reasonable means to get out of the situation. Or she did, but then she went back.

[01:05:07]She went into the kitchen. She grabbed a knife. Mr. Medina stayed outside. She came back outside. He was still there.

[01:05:17]She returned to the argument with a weapon. She used deadly force after she admitted to you that she should have just walked away and she should have just walked away, gone upstairs, gone to bed, left it alone.

[01:05:32]There was one knife. There was one weapon. It was the knife that Lucy left the argument in the yard and went in to grab that she came back outside and stabbed Mr. Medina with. You saw pictures of that knife lying on the patio with blood on the blade.

[01:05:52]There's no question that she escalated that argument, even if it was a struggle and even if it had turned physical. As you heard, she could not use more force than was necessary and she had left the argument.

[01:06:06]Your verdict cannot be based on sympathy, cannot be based on things not in evidence. must be based on the evidence that you heard, the interview, the pictures, the information from the witnesses.

[01:06:19]The evidence shows you that obviously this was not a perfect relationship. Far from it. that that doesn't give somebody the right to stab somebody in the neck.

[01:06:29]Particularly when that person acknowledges in the hours immediately after the incident that they left the argument, grabbed a knife, went back outside, returned to the argument, didn't leave it alone, didn't go upstairs, didn't go to bed. She didn't just walk away.

[01:06:51]I ask you to find Lucy Medina guilty of the soul charge. She >> called 911 very much >> twice and tried to save his life counsel.

[01:07:01]>> Okay. So, jurors, I have some additional instructions I need to give you before we send you out to start deliberating the case. So, you must decide whether the Comwalth has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the charge made against Ms. Medina and that she failed to act in self-defense.

[01:07:18]You may not find the defendant guilty just because you think the defendant did something else that was wrong or improper. Your decision must be unanimous, meaning that all 12 deliberating jurors must agree. You will receive one verdict slip. When all 12 jurors agree on the verdict, the four person shall check off that verdict and then sign and date the verdict slip in.

[01:07:40]If you all agree that the Comwalth has proved every element of the sole charge in this case and that um Miss Medina did not act in self-defense and they proved it beyond a reasonable doubt, then you should find that M. Medina is guilty of the one charge. On the other hand, if you all agree that the Commonwealth did not prove one or more elements of the charge or that Miss Medina did not act in self-defense and prove that beyond a reasonable doubt, then your verdict must be not guilty of that charge. Jurors, you have the most important role in this trial because you must decide who and what to believe and whether the Commonwealth has proved Miss Medina's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You must be completely fair and unbiased in your work as jurors. Do not let your emotions, any kind of prejudice, or your personal likes or dislikes influence you in any way.

[01:08:30]>> If you're not looking at your screen, cameras focus on the back of Lucy Medina's head. She has been physically shaking, hysterically crying throughout most, if not all of this trial. This trial started on Tuesday. Today is Friday.

[01:08:49]Somebody said, "Why did the state feel compelled to rush this to court?" Well, it's it's this happened in 2020. They didn't indict her until 2021. And it took 5 years for it to get to trial. But the rest of your comment is accurate.

[01:09:04]I'm wondering why for real. Why are we here? Am I missing something? He didn't die. Nope. Thanks, Aman. Smooth as cruise.

[01:09:14]She's physically faking this entire time. You can't fake that. That's a trauma response.

[01:09:24]>> Consider the evidence calmly and carefully. Do not be influenced by the nature of the charges or the possible consequences of your verdict. And do not let your personal feelings about any person, criminal charge, or anything else influence your decision.

[01:09:39]You must decide this case based only on the evidence presented at the trial. You may not consider this case uh this you may not decide this case based on anything else. Do not consider anything you have read, heard, or seen outside of this courtroom. Those things are not evidence and you may not base your verdict on suspicion, guesswork, or speculation. You may have noticed that Miss Medina did not testify at this trial. She has an absolute right not to testify since the entire burden of proof in this case is on the Commonwealth to prove its case and it is not up to Miss Medina to prove her innocence. Under our system of law, a defendant has a perfect right to say to the Commonwealth, "You have the burden of proving your case against me beyond a reasonable doubt. I do not have to say a word. The fact that she did not testify has nothing to do with the question of whether she is guilty or not guilty. You are not to draw any adverse inference against Miss Medina because she did not testify. You may not consider or discuss the fact that she did not testify, and you may not speculate about why she did not testify. You must determine whether the Commonwealth has proved its case against Miss Medina based solely on the testimony of the witnesses and the exhibits. As I told you earlier, you must decide this case based only on the evidence presented at trial. The evidence consists of the testimony of witnesses as you recall it and the things that were marked as exhibits. You will have the exhibits with you in the jury room. Things that were marked only for identification are not exhibits and you will not be able to consider them.

[01:11:10]As you review the exhibits, you may find that some information has been removed because it is not relevant. Please ignore that and don't try to guess what may have been removed or why. Other things are not evidence and you may not consider them when deciding this case.

[01:11:26]That fact that the defendant has been indicted or charged with c with a certain crime is not evidence. Questions that a lawyer asks of a witness are not evidence. Only the answers are evidence.

[01:11:36]For example, if a lawyer asked, "Wasn't it raining outside?" and the witness answered no or said, "Well, it was cloudy." The question is not evidence that it was raining. If a lawyer asked a question, I sustained an objection and therefore the witness did not answer, then neither the question nor the fact that the witness did not answer is evidence. If I struck or told you to disregard any part or all of any answer by a witness, then that part of the testimony is not evidence and you may not consider it. Anything that you may have seen or heard when the court was not in session is not evidence. The opening statements and the closing arguments of the lawyers are not evidence. And if your memory of the testimony differs from the attorneys, you should rely on your memory. Any notes that you have taken are not evidence, but you may use your notes to refresh your memory of the evidence.

[01:12:26]Now, as you know, evidence can come in the come in many forms. It can be testimony about what someone saw, heard, smelt, or felt. And it can be someone's opinion and it can be an exhibit. Some evidence proves a fact directly. For example, if a witness testified that she saw and felt it raining outside because she came into the courthouse, then that is direct evidence that it was raining.

[01:12:49]Summon evidence can be pro uh can prove a fact indirectly. For example, let's say a witness testified that he saw someone coming to the courthouse wearing a wet raincoat and shaking water off an umbrella. That is indirect evidence that if you believe it might lead you conclude that it was raining outside even though the witness did not see, hear, or feel the rain. This kind of indirect evidence does not directly prove that something is true, but is evidence from which you could logically conclude that it is. We call this drawing an inference. We all draw our inferences every day. We take some information that we know, we apply our intelligence and common sense, and then we reach a conclusion. But inferences must be based on facts. They can't just be guesses that you make when you are not sure about something. Sometimes you can draw more than one inference. You have to decide which inferences are reasonable and decide which which seem more reasonable to you. It makes no difference whether the evidence is direct or indirect. The Commonwealth may be able to prove a crime a criminal charge with direct evidence, indirect evidence, or a combination of both. In deciding whether the Commonwealth has met its burden of proving every element of a criminal charge beyond a reasonable doubt, you may consider all of the credible evidence as well as any reasonable inferences that you may draw from that evidence. Drawing an inference again is something we do every day. We take some known information, apply our intelligence, life experience, and common sense and draw a conclusion. But the inferences must be reasonable conclusions based on facts. They are not mere guesswork based on assumptions or conjecture. As you deliberate uh about the evidence in this case to try to determine what happened, you may consider witnesses testimony about um about their perceptions such as what they saw or heard and other direct uh evidence of some facts. You may also make reasonable inferences from credible evidence. The Commonwealth can meet its burden of pro of providing of proving the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt through circumstantial evidence which is any evidence from which you must draw a reasonable inference before you can conclude that some fact is true. But you may not speculate or make assumptions.

[01:15:06]>> Wow. Hold on. You are right. Hank does have a thing for sharpened pencils. In fact, Emily, see, look at all those pencils in front of him. Does he have stock in the number two pencil? What?

[01:15:16]Who's the famous pencil company? Look at how he has a thing for pencils. I can't even write with pencils.

[01:15:23]Sometimes we need to take a break to have a laugh. Otherwise, we're just going to cry all the time. And uh we laughed a lot this morning during waiting for the Karen Reed hearing to start. Boy, did we. That's a lot of pencils.

[01:15:39]>> Unproved facts. Number two, >> you also may not use conjecture or guesswork to to choose between alternative inferences. Conflicting inferences of equal likelihood do not provide proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

[01:15:52]Thus, if you conclude that the evidence equally supports two inferences, one consistent with guilt and the other with innocence, then you must return a verdict of not guilty because the evidence must uh would be insufficient to support a verdict of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

[01:16:11]A very important part of your job as jurists is to decide who and what to believe. You may believe everything a witness says, part of it or none of it.

[01:16:19]Sometimes people do not tell the truth.

[01:16:21]You must decide whether a witness was being truthful or was deliberately lying. If you conclude that a witness lied to you about something, then of course you should not believe that part of the testimony. And if you think that a witness deliberately gave false testimony about something that matters in the case, then you may, but are not required to reject and not believe some or all of the rest of the witness's testimony. Sometimes people make an honest mistake. You must also decide what witness testified accurately or whether the witness may have gotten something wrong without meaning to do so. A witness may recall seeing or hearing something but actually be mistaken. For example, the witness may not have paid close attention or might have misunderstood what was happening or witness's memory of what happened could be incorrect. If you conclude that a witness tried to be truthful but that some part of the person's testimony was not accurate, then you should not consider the inaccurate testimony. Now, how do you decide whether you believe particular statements by a witness? Ask yourself, did the testimony seem reasonable or probable? Did the witness have a good chance to observe what happened? How much attention did the witness pay? Does the witness's memory seem accurate? Was the witness's testimony consistent with ev evidence or instead contradicted by evidence? Did the witness make a prior statement or give prior testimony that differs in in any significant way from their testimony at trial? Has the witness omitted any important information that they testified about at a trial from a prior statement or testimony? Did the witness have any motive for testifying in a certain way or have any other bias that may have influenced the witness's testimony?

[01:18:01]Most of the testimony came from witnesses who saw or heard something.

[01:18:05]Some witnesses also told you about opinions or conclusions they reached based on some special training or experience. But even if a witness has some special training or experience, that does not necessarily make that witness's testimony any more believable or important than other testimony or exhibits. You must decide whether you believe the witness and how much importance to give to the witness's testimony. You should consider all the factors I have previously mentioned, including whether the witness had a motive to testify in a certain way or some other bias that could have influenced the witness's testimony. In addition, as you evaluate a witness's opinions or conclusions, you should also ask, was the witness's testimony supported by the facts of this case? Did the witness use guesswork or assumptions that you do not find to be convincing or are not consistent with the facts? Did the witness have sufficient education or experience? You may decide to accept all, some, or none of the opinions or conclusions offered by a witness. But please remember that the witness, even those with special training or experience, do not decide cases. Juries do. It is up to you to decide this case and to decide whether you accept or reject any opinion or conclusion that a witness offered during the trial. It is also up to you to decide how important each part of the evidence is. Whether it is testimony by a witness or an exhibit.

[01:19:27]Whether evidence is direct or indirect, you should give evidence whatever significance you think it deserves. You are not required to believe something simply because it appears an exhibit. It is up to you to decide how important any exhibit is. You do not have to treat testimony by the witness as more or less significant than the exhibits. You may find that a witness testimony is very important or that an exhibit is more important. That is up to you. Now, you've heard about a statement allegedly made by the defendant concerning the offense which is charged in this case. Before you may consider any such statement, you are going to have to make a preliminary determination whether it can be considered as evidence or not. You may not consider any such statement in your deliberations unless from all the evidence in the case the Commonwealth has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Ms. Medina made the statement that is she is alleged to have made and that she made it voluntarily, freely, and rationally. In determining whether or not any statement made by the defendant was voluntary, you may consider all the surrounding circumstances. You may take into account the nature and duration of any conversation that the police officers have with the defendant. You may consider where and when the statement was made. You may consider any evidence you have about Ms. Medina's physical and mental condition and experience.

[01:20:48]Now, some of the photographs that have been admitted into evidence may be graphic and unpleasant. I instruct you that you that your verdict must not be must not in any way be influenced by the fact that these photographs may be graphic or unpleasant. The defendant is entitled to a verdict based solely on the evidence and not on uh not on one not one based on pity or sympathy.

[01:21:09]Consider a photograph only as it may show a medical condition, the nature of an injury or the details of an incident itself. Now, sometimes evidence is presented that may produce an emotional response. For example, it's natural and un understandable to feel sympathy and empathy when you see or hear about a person who was allegedly injured in a serious way or who suffered in some way.

[01:21:32]I instruct you that you must separate any emotional response from the value and weight of the evidence. You must find the facts in this case based only on the evidence and not on your emotional response to the evidence. You must not base your decision on sympathy, anger, passion, or prejudice or pity.

[01:21:51]Rather, your verdict must bas must be based solely on the evidence in this case and my instructions on the law.

[01:21:57]Now, many of you have taken notes during this trial. Your notes may help you remember the evidence, especially the testimony, but of course, they are not an actual transcript or official record of what was said. So, use your notes only to help you remember what you heard and saw during the trial. Whether you took notes or not, you must rely on your own memory of what the witnesses told you. after the trial is over.

[01:22:22]>> No readbacks in Massachusetts. Remember in the Foss trial in Georgia when the jury asked if they could hear or get a transcript of the testimony of one of the witnesses and they came into court and they read them or they let them listen to the testimony and it was something like three hours long. They don't do that in Massachusetts. You got to rely on your notes. So if the jur jurors are back there saying, "Well, my notes say this and somebody else's notes say that."

[01:22:47]Might not always be accurate. It's a It's a danger. I don't like it. New York, we always get readbacks. Usually, the court reporter will just read back the testimony or the portion of the testimony that the jury wants to hear again. And I think that's a much smarter way to do it. I don't like the idea of having to rely on your notes. And you've returned your verdict. A court officer will collect your notes and destroy them. Now, during this trial, the lawyers may have objected to questions posed to a witness. They may have moved to strike or in essence erase certain testimony. Whenever a lawyer believes that something would violate the rules of evidence, the lawyer is supposed to object or move the strike. That is part of the lawyer's job. Now, let me turn to another important issue that I raised with you at the beginning of this trial.

[01:23:29]Our system of justice depend on depends on judges like me and jurors like you being able and willing to make careful and fair decisions. All people deserve fair and equal treatment in our system of justice regardless of their race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, age, ability, gender, sexual orientation, education, income level, or any other personal characteristics. You have all agreed to be fair, and I'm sure that you want to be fair, but that is not always easy. One difficulty comes from our own built-in expectations and assumptions. They exist even if we are not aware of them and even if we believe we do not have them. Some of you may have heard this called implicit bias and that is what I'm talking about. We judges have the same problem. So, let me share a few strategies that we have found useful. First, slow down. Do not rush to a decision. Hasty decisions are more likely to reflect stereotypes or hidden biases. Take time to consider all the evidence. Second, as you start to draw conclusions, consider what evidence, if any, supports the conclusion you are drawing and whether any evidence cast doubt on those conclusions. Double check whether you are actually using unsupported assumptions instead of the evidence.

[01:24:40]Third, as you think about the people involved in this case, consider them as individuals rather than as members of a particular group. Fourth, I might ask myself, would I view the evidence differently if the people were from different groups such as a different racial, ethnic, or gender identity groups? Fifth, listen to your fellow jurors. They may have different points of view. If so, they may help you determine whether you are focusing on the facts or making assumptions perhaps based on stereotypes. Of course, your fellow jurors could be influenced by their own unstated assumptions. So, don't be shy or hesitate to speak up.

[01:25:16]You should participate actively uh particularly if you think that other jurors are overlooking or undervaluing evidence you find important. In fact, when you explain your thoughts out loud to other jurors, you're also helping yourself to focus on the evidence instead of assumptions. If you use these strategies, then you will do your part to reach a decision that is as fair as humanly possible. That is your responsibility as jurors.

[01:25:42]>> Now, I'm now going to give you some instructions about how to conduct your deliberations. First of all, you must keep your deliberations secret. You should not tell anyone outside of the jury room, not even me, anything about them. For example, please do not tell me or anyone else the results of any votes you may have taken before you all agree on a verdict. You must not tell anyone how your discussions are going or what any juror said. If you need to communicate with me before you reach a verdict, you should send me a written note in a form that you all agree on. It must be signed by your for person. I will discuss your note with the lawyers.

[01:26:18]Then I will either send you a response in writing or bring you into the courtroom and respond to you in person.

[01:26:24]If you do send me a note, it should not mention any votes you may have taken or anything about anything else about your deliberations or the state of your deliberations. Do not talk about the case unless all of you are present and no one else is in the room. If one of you needs to leave for a moment, then the rest of you should stop deliberating until that jury returns. If we break for the day before you reach a verdict, then you must not not communicate with any other jurors about the case until the next day and only after we gather in the courtroom and I ask you to resume your deliberations. As you work to decide this case and until I accept your verdict, you must not communicate with anyone about the case except each other.

[01:27:04]And you must not do any kind of research about this case. you may not do so in any way including with any electronic device such as a cell phone or tablet.

[01:27:14]This also applies to the alternate jurors. Now the verdict which you reach with respect to the charge must represent the considered judgment of each jurors of each juror. Your verdict must be unanimous. Unonymity means that each of you must agree that the prosecution has met or has not met its burden to establish the incident or incidents which are the basis for the particular charge you are deliberating.

[01:27:37]before returning a verdict on that charge before you um therefore you must all agree as to proof of the existence or non-existence of the specific incident or incidents at issue. It is not enough that each of you conclude that one or more of or some incidents have been proved or not proved. Rather, you must each agree that the same incidents have been proved or not proven. You shall not return a verdict on an indictment unless each of you unanimously agrees as I have defined that term as to the specific basis for the charge. Now, the law permits only 12 jurors to participate in deciding a criminal case. There are 14 of you here.

[01:28:18]So, in a few minutes, our clerk will randomly select two of you to be alternate jurors. The other 12 of you will work together to decide this case.

[01:28:27]We chose 14 of you originally in case one of two of you got sick or had some other unexpected emergency. If you're chosen as an alternate, you can your continued uh service is still very important and you must comply with all the rules I have given you. The alternate jurors will stay in another room and must not discuss the case with each other or with anyone else. If we lose a deliberating juror because of some personal emergency or sickness, then I will send one of the alternates into the jury room. If this happens, the deliberating jury will have to restart its discussions from the beginning. Now, one of you will serve as a forperson of the jury. We will discuss who will be the four person in just a moment. The four person will make sure that each of you has the chance to speak and that the other jurors listen to you respectfully, but the four person's opinion about the case is no more important than the opinions of all other jurors. Once you agree on a verdict, the four person will fill out the verdict slip and will report your verdict in court. When you work together as a jury, you will be making decision as a group. This kind of decision making is very valuable. Now, why do I say that? When a jury hears and sees evidence, each juror acts as a safeguard for the others. For example, someone else may recall evidence that you missed, and each of you will have insight that will help the other jurors make sense of the evidence and reach a verdict. No member of the jury is more or less qualified than any other juror to decide who and what to believe. You have all her uh you have all heard the same evidence, listened to the same witnesses, and looked at the same exhibits. And you have all taken the same oath promising that you will well and truly try the issues between the commonwealth and the defendant according to the evidence and the law. So, you are all equally qualified to reach a verdict. I have a few suggestions that may help you as you work together.

[01:30:18]First, you should discuss and analyze the evidence before you take any vote about a verdict. Voting first uh voting first could keep you from discussing the issues and hearing other people's perspectives before making up your own mind. Second, I encourage you to discuss not only evidence you think supports your view of the case, but also what evidence you think might lead you to make a different decision. Third, as the other jurors talk about the evidence that they found important, please listen. In order for this process to work fairly, each of you should hear every other juror's insights and ideas.

[01:30:52]Please be open to them since they might influence your thinking. Fourth, don't be shy. As in any group, some of you will be more comfortable than others in sharing your thoughts, but you must have the benefit of anyone's input to help of everyone's input to help you reach a just verdict. For example, you may be the one who remembers a particular piece of evidence or has a particular point of view. The more points of view that you all hear, the more effective your deliberations will be. Fifth, don't be afraid to change your mind if the discussions persuade you that you should. But you should not accept the decision just because other jurors think it is the right one. In the end, you should vote based on your own assessment of the evidence, regardless of how other jurors have voted. Ultimately, you each must decide this case for yourself.

[01:31:39]Okay. So, jurors, before this, I need to speak with council for a moment before I send you out.

[01:31:47]Okay. Um, so he speaks with the attorneys, then the jury goes out. People I hear people complaining that >> in seat 11.

[01:31:58]>> Wait, let's see how she does the alternates. Hold on. Let's see what she does with the bingo ball. So, um, jurors, uh, I have selected the juror in seat number 14 to be the first person on the jury, and our clerk will now randomly select two of you from the remaining jurors who will serve as alternates.

[01:32:14]>> Usually, it's number one.

[01:32:18]All right. Did she show everyone the bingo balls before she put them in? Why is the ADA sitting in a height chair?

[01:32:24]Either that or he's about 6' 10.

[01:32:30]She pulled two things out of the bingo.

[01:32:33]>> 11 and number 105.

[01:32:39]>> See what 11 and number 105.

[01:32:58]>> Oh, seat three. Thank you.

[01:33:01]11 and three.

[01:33:03]I don't know. I trust her. She didn't try and hide anything.

[01:33:07]We've seen it done.

[01:33:08]>> Court officers.

[01:33:11]>> Court officers, please raise your hands.

[01:33:13]Do each of you solemnly swear that you will keep this jury in some convenient place until they are agreed. That you will not suffer any person to speak to them or uh nor speak to them yourselves unless by order of the court order to ask them if they have agreed. and that when they have reached he'll bring them back into the court unless the court otherwise orders >> jumping jurors. You will now go and start your private discussions. Please have confidence in what you're about to do. By serving on this jury, you are carrying on a long and proud tradition of citizens serving in jury trials in Massachusetts. This is today.

[01:33:47]>> If you are honest, thoughtful, and fair, you will be able to reach a fair and just verdict. Can now go with the court officers. In a moment, we'll the party's going to organize all the exhibits.

[01:33:57]It'll take a little bit to get the exhibits back to you. And as I said, you will also have a um written copy of my instructions to refer to during your deliberations.

[01:34:06]>> All right. So, they're going to get all the evidence together. The juryy's going to get to bring everything back with them.

[01:34:11]>> All right. Thank you. Uh >> this was 23 minutes from the end of law girls stream. This is a picture of Lucy walking out of court the other day.

[01:34:25]And then about 40 minutes ago, the jury had a question.

[01:34:33]But from what I can read on law girls's comments, so they ended this stream.

[01:34:40]So there is no live stream for this.

[01:34:42]Court TV has a camera in the courtroom.

[01:34:44]They are not live streaming. They've been there since Tuesday when the when the uh the whole thing started. And they've been the only thing they released was the police interview of Lucy openings and that's it. That's all they've released on their channel.

[01:35:14]Jerry had a question. This was I think 40 minutes ago, but I don't know if they got the volume on this. So, let's see what happened. and Court TV was kind enough to let them plug into their camera. So, we had a great feed this morning, but nobody's covering this case except for law girls, not attorneys, and me.

[01:35:35]So, there's nobody live tweeting from the courtroom that I know of. If you can find somebody, let me know.

[01:35:42]Here's the judge, but I don't know if there's going to be volume on this because maybe The pool camera didn't turn it on, but I'm curious about what it could be about because there's no volume.

[01:36:03]We know they were going to buy the jury lunch today.

[01:36:11]So, if anybody can find this anywhere, anybody talking on Twitter about what this question from the jury might have been, let me know.

[01:36:21]T question. Why are we here? Yep.

[01:36:27]And uh maybe it was when is lunch coming. Oh, they just want highlighters.

[01:36:32]That's what it was. They wanted highlighters.

[01:36:35]They wanted some of those yellow highlighters. I love highlighters. I'm I have a million highlighters and a million different colors.

[01:36:45]>> Hold on. Because she's got a stream up now waiting for the verdict. So, as soon as we know, and it looks like she's scheduled to go live again at 1:30, and it is 12:42 right now. So, now we're on verdict watch unless they have another question.

[01:37:09]Let's go back to the chat.

[01:37:12]I have a feeling it's going to be today, but you know, like I always say, I never want to bet on what a juryy's going to do, and so I just don't know. But for those of you who are just joining today for the first time on this trial, the playlist is below this video of the streams that I've done. I think this is only the third one because the trial started Tuesday. We found out about it Wednesday when Court TV started dropping stuff. So, we had streams yet uh Wednesday, yesterday, and today is Friday, March 6th. Oh, Court TV has it on now. Oh, isn't that so nice of them?

[01:37:45]Not live, but a PO is on standby, and they're showing a PO on the st What? Not live, but a police officer is on the stand, and they're showing a police officer on the stand now. Well, we saw that. Are they showing the the video of the police interview? Cuz that's the only thing. And is it on their like television channel or is it on their YouTube? I don't think it's on their YouTube because not giving up those pencils. And so we wait. Um, for those of you hang on one second.

[01:38:19]Dumpster fire show says, "I have a tiny video, maybe 10-second video of my service dog dancing to your song. Is there an email I can send it to?" Yeah, we love our Melanie in this house. Um, my email is below in the show notes, but I don't click on links and I don't click on videos that people send me and I don't because you know it's a great way to get hacks. Just look at what's going on in the cesspool of the world. But thank you so much. I'm sure it's a dorbs.

[01:38:42]Stay hot podcast says thanks Melanie for bringing attention to this case.

[01:38:44]Thoughts and prayers for Lucy. Can't imagine what she's going through.

[01:38:49]Laura says Lucy's shaking brings me back to Ashley Benfield.

[01:38:55]Um, Kai says, "I'm so concerned about Lucy's well-being after this trial.

[01:38:59]Knowing she's still there is beyond terrifying." Well, I want to tell you something that I found out without really telling you what I found out.

[01:39:05]That makes me feel a hell of a lot better because Hank Brandon did say when he was talking to Dr. Zizel, who by the way is one of the best experts I've ever seen, testify. It's in our stream from yesterday.

[01:39:20]Something happened to Louise that has made Lucy, his primary caretaker. And so she makes his meals and cares for him. I don't know if he is debilitated to the point where he is unable to lay hands on her. I don't know if she is living with him, but what we have learned is that she is his primary caretaker. And it makes me feel a lot better uh knowing that perhaps he may be incapacitated and can't lay hands on her.

[01:39:51]And here's law, girls, not attorneys, due processes. Can't wait to get home later and watch your stream. Hope you guys loved Hank's closing as much as we did. I cried.

[01:40:01]Night night says, "Convict her. Time served plus lifetime probation with no victim contact. Problem solved. Lucy protected. No harm. No continued exposure to dangers. Well, there's harm.

[01:40:10]She has a job working for the government. She works for Social Security Administration. She can't be a convicted felon.

[01:40:18]I see where you're going with that, but I disagree. I also want to show you the statue to see what she's facing.

[01:40:25]Yellow le Better Ros has just caught up on the Karen Reed tri thing this morning. Amazing in bed with Helold. Oh, feel better on the upswing. Hank needs to stick to defense attorney. Much better look for him. Thank you.

[01:40:39]Brass says at least uh SXDA is consistent. All victims of all forms of domestic abuse, mental, sexual, physical, get prosecuted. Justin mentally abused Kelsey.

[01:40:49]Thank you for your five. Eric said from Brennan after Karen Reed. This is sickeningly ironic and somewhat hypnotical. Hypo hypocritical. Not hypnotical. Hypocritical. Good advocacy though. Thank you for your five, Eric.

[01:41:03]And Lynn said, "I feel like she was saying I should have walked away not because of her guilt, but because she was thinking as a battered woman, worried about her king." Yes, please. If you didn't listen to Dr. Isel yesterday and you know nothing about DV or you think you do, please go back and watch his testimony yesterday. It was riveting. It was riveting. He will also be testifying for Kelsey Fitz Simmons and Lindseay Clancy. He testified also in the Harry Turk trial. So he's a uh widely used expert forensic psychologist in Massachusetts and possibly other states.

[01:41:38]Shop and tan for me says triggers.

[01:41:40]Please, if you know of anybody, including yourself, needing to get away and can't call 988. I've been there, done this. Please understand. Please. I understand that it's hard reach out. Please, thank you for your 20 and for good advice. Burps. After false wrongful conviction, it's hard to keep faith in the system. Prayers for all of who have been wrongfully forced into a defendant's chair.

[01:42:08]Thank you for your five. Ellen said, "Thank you, Melanie, for shining a light where curtains are drawn and not just going where there's already cameras.

[01:42:15]You're doing both."

[01:42:17]Hands up for justice. Thank you, Ellen, for tuning in from I think that's Denmark. Is that Denmark?

[01:42:28]Uh, I'll see what's available on Court TV, but I don't think they have any of it there because I've just looked here.

[01:42:33]I'll show you what they do have.

[01:42:36]I will show you what they do have so far. Not much. Most of it I think we've already watched, right?

[01:42:47]Well, please, despite the fact that many of you wrote to them and commented on their YouTube videos of this case saying, "Please cover this live. Please cover this live." Uh, they've emailed a couple of you back and said, "Listen, our our focus is on Corey Richens right now."

[01:43:03]But the ir irony is they already have a courtroom uh a camera in the courtroom for Lucy Medina. So I don't know. But also remember they were just bought out.

[01:43:13]Did I freeze? They were just bought out by uh law and crime. And so they may not have the resources to do it, but they have the camera there. So I don't know because by the time if you release the trial after it's over, it's too late.

[01:43:29]Okay. Lucy Medina needed support and still needs support because the jury is now deciding her fate. And if there were more eyes on this, it would have been so much better in my opinion. But but no.

[01:43:40]Oh, look. Now they're calling it the reluctant victim assault trial.

[01:43:51]Are they actually using her name? Not really. Oh yeah. Massachusetts versus Lucy Medina. Actually have her name in there.

[01:44:02]all these popups. I really I just can't.

[01:44:08]And they've been updating it every day kind of a little bit. Like here, day four, the defense and prosecution delivered closing arguments. The jury began its celebrations. That's all they have for day four. For day three, here's what we missed yesterday that we couldn't see live.

[01:44:24]Ruth Nunees, Lucy's cousin, who also worked with her, saw bruising, and other signs of physical abuse. This was during the defense's case in chief.

[01:44:33]Lucy blamed falls, often missed work, and blamed it on sleeplessness. Kirsty Roberts, Lucy's friend and co-orker, testified that she met Lucy in a community job training program, saw bruises. Lucy blamed falls and medication. Lewis would send Lucy flowers after the bruises would appear, but Lucy never seemed happy about them.

[01:44:54]Rosita Urina, Lucy's co-orker, said she saw bruising on Lucy, including a severe instance of black and blue injuries that looked like a car accident.

[01:45:03]Lucy often missed work. Lewis would send beautiful flowers to the office after Lucy showed up with bruises. Lucy was never happy about them. Well, what they didn't put in their summary from yesterday was the expert Dr. Zizel's testimony, which went on for hours.

[01:45:21]They don't even have that in their day three summary because they don't want to talk about how good a witness Dr. Zizel.

[01:45:27]I don't understand it. I don't understand it.

[01:45:33]Court TV is a is a is a network that openly displayed hatred for Karen Reed through Julie Grant and Big Case Mike, who often came on Julie Grant's show and said, "I hate that woman. I hate that woman.

[01:46:00]We did catch up on day two before that about no fingerprints were found on the knife to make a match.

[01:46:08]Louis Medina never spoke to police, etc. But you know what we should watch?

[01:46:14]Let's watch uh let's see what Court TV has a thing about Karen Reed here. Let's watch that for a moment cuz I just saw it down below. So, all they have up is opening statements. Lucy Medina's bloody face and hands shown to the jury.

[01:46:33]But they did have something over here on the side of the page about O'Keefe's attorney apologizing to Karen Reed. So, let's watch this again from Court TV's perspective, shall we? This is what happened with Karen Reed.

[01:46:49]So, the parties have consulted and I understand there's consensus moving forward hopefully. So, attorney Diller, why don't you set forth what's been agreed to?

[01:47:00]>> Your honor, thank you for the opportunity to meet and confer. Um, the parties have met.

[01:47:06]>> If you haven't seen this yet, get ready for Mark Diller to eat crow on worldwide television. Are you here? watch >> and conferred. The agreement that we have in place is the plaintiffs are going to withdraw the current motion that's sitting before this court. The parties have agreed to act in an expedited fashion towards either reaching a stipulation or uh some agreement as to how to deal with the issue for the phones on or before the date that they get released back into the custody of Karen Reed. And we have agreed that we will continue to work uh in good faith towards that end.

[01:47:52]>> Wait for it. Wait for it. I also want to acknowledge to this court and to Miss Reed that I was mistaken when I interpreted her words to say I'm dead.

[01:48:05]I'm effing dead.

[01:48:06]>> He was mistaken.

[01:48:10]>> Uh your honor, generally that is the agreed agreement that we've reached. The one clarification I would provide is that we are going to work in an ex >> Yeah, I forgot about this part.

[01:48:21]Jackson's dust off was priceless. Let's see if they they catch it on their feed.

[01:48:26]Watch while he's apologizing publicly crow.

[01:48:37]>> Watch how Alan Jackson flints the lint off. Flicks the lint off his sleeve. No, they cut it. They cut it out. They cut Allen out of frame.

[01:48:49]Oh, let's see if it's here. Hold on.

[01:48:53]towards that end. I also want to acknowledge to this court and to Miss Reed that I was mistaken when I interpreted her words to say, "I'm dead.

[01:49:05]I'm effing dead."

[01:49:07]>> Thank you, M. Reed.

[01:49:10]>> Uh, your honor, generally that is the agreed agreement that >> it was during the apology. It wasn't after. It was definitely during the apology that cut it out.

[01:49:20]>> That's hilarious. You're not hidden, Jersey. You're not hidden.

[01:49:30]And so Court TV's got nothing unless they put stuff some stuff up on their YouTube channel.

[01:49:35]It was It was there. Go back a little more. All right, let me see.

[01:49:44]They've got their their logo in front of him, though. So, but we'll try. All right, we'll give it one more try.

[01:49:51]Waiting for the jury to come back on Lucy Medina.

[01:49:54]I backed it up. I backed it up. Here you go.

[01:49:58]>> The parties have agreed to act in an expedited fashion towards either reaching stipulation or >> uh some agreement.

[01:50:10]>> There it is.

[01:50:13]One more time.

[01:50:17]Here's Alan Jackson on the right side, bottom of the screen. Bottom of the screen >> towards either reaching a stipulation or >> uh some agreement as to >> that was fantastic. I mean, that was You never see that. You never see a public crow eating. And I bet you it was part of the deal, part of the stipulation. Karen's like, "I want a public apology. How dare you? How dare you?

[01:50:49]Let's see if um Court TV has anything on their live feed. I don't know. We could try.

[01:51:02]But I looked. I mean, if you Google this case of Lucy Medina, you're not going to find there's just there's nothing to find. Nobody's covering it. The only thing that I found Oops.

[01:51:13]Streamyard, I hate you. I hate you.

[01:51:21]Hold on.

[01:51:24]I found remember that paper that we saw the other day.

[01:51:29]I think it's a a Lawrence paper. I don't see Boston 25 covering this. I don't see Boston 10 covering this.

[01:51:37]Do you?

[01:51:43]Uh, the Eagle Tribune.

[01:51:49]The Eagle Tribune. And in order to get access to this, I have to go to, you know, the Wayback Machine. Hold on a second.

[01:51:56]Cuz it's behind a pay payw wall. But for you, I'll do it.

[01:52:11]I am not a robot.

[01:52:16]Oh, but now I have to select her all squares with motorcycles. Okay, this is going to be a lot of squares to check off.

[01:52:52]The Corey Richens case is not on trial today. Oh. Oh, wait a second.

[01:53:01]Hold on.

[01:53:06]wrote during a drunken argument back in July of 2020. Medina doesn't deny the assault. She's very sorry.

[01:53:15]>> She says she did it because it was self-defense and it was after years of abuse, physical from her husband, who >> agrees. He says he was an alcoholic.

[01:53:27]>> Hold on. This is live Court TV on their website. Let me see how far back I can get. Okay.

[01:53:35]So, okay. They let me rewind. I'm shocked. Okay. Here you go.

[01:53:42]See what Court TV has to say about this.

[01:53:48]Welcome back to Court TV Live. I'm Ted Rollins. Good to be with you on this Friday afternoon. Cory Richens out in Utah has the day off along with that jury. They're dark today. They'll be back at it Monday morning, 10:30 Eastern time. Meanwhile, we're in Massachusetts this afternoon for the reluctant victim assault trial. The defendant near Lucy Medina. Prosecutors say the then 52-year-old slit her husband's throat during a drunken argument back in July freaking out 2020. Medina doesn't deny the assault. She's very sorry. She says she did it because it was self-defense and it was after years of abuse physical from her husband who agrees. He says he was an alcoholic that physically abused Lucy for years and doesn't think she did anything wrong. Let's go back into the courtroom. He did survive uh and pick it up where we left off. This is the investigator on the stand. But we're going to watch Lucy Medina's police interview.

[01:54:56]>> Oh yeah, that's the only thing that they've published. We've already seen this. Thank you for nothing.

[01:54:59]>> Play is 27 minutes and 15 seconds.

[01:55:05]>> Are there any of you that haven't seen the police interview?

[01:55:08]>> Was that Can we just mark that for when we're done? We'll mark that for identification. You should be admitted as >> I think be admitted as an exhibit.

[01:55:18]>> Great.

[01:55:18]>> Okay.

[01:55:23]>> You graduate college.

[01:55:25]>> Did you graduate college? This I don't know why their whole stream is freaking out.

[01:55:31]>> You're not in good. Okay.

[01:55:35]>> You work?

[01:55:38]>> What do you do for work?

[01:55:40]>> I used to work on the social security office. Oh, really? In Salem or here in Lawrence?

[01:55:45]>> In Lawrence.

[01:55:46]>> Okay. What was your job there?

[01:55:53]>> Excellent.

[01:55:55]Um, do you have any history of mental health uh illness diagnosed?

[01:56:05]Did any police threaten you today?

[01:56:09]>> Police treated you well?

[01:56:11]Did they promise you anything?

[01:56:13]>> No.

[01:56:14]>> Okay.

[01:56:22]>> Okay.

[01:56:23]>> I don't know yet if he's going to be okay. Unless I heard he's still alive and I hope he will be in good hands there.

[01:56:33]>> I'm going to read what your rights are and I'd like to talk to you for a little bit so I can understand what happened.

[01:56:42]They're working on it. I don't know right now. They're hopefully they're going to have a report >> right now. I'm going to tell you something. If something happens to him, I will not be okay. I'd rather be dead.

[01:56:54]>> I'm so sorry.

[01:56:55]>> Okay.

[01:56:58]Something like this in my life.

[01:56:59]>> Let me tell you go over this dear and then I'd like to talk to you some more.

[01:57:04]>> I just want to be I just want you to be okay because I feel myself. Oh my family, his family and my kids.

[01:57:16]>> You do me a favor right now.

[01:57:23]>> Just stay in control right now just so we can talk to you and then afterward I know if you're upset and I would be too.

[01:57:31]I understand. All right.

[01:57:34]So Lucy, before we ask any questions, we must understand your rights. Do you understand that, Lucy? Do you understand that?

[01:57:44]Yes. You're nodding your head.

[01:57:48]You have the right to remain silent. Do you understand that?

[01:57:52]You better speak for me. Okay. Thank you. Anything you say can be used against you in court. Do you understand that?

[01:58:02]Understand that, huh?

[01:58:03]>> Yeah.

[01:58:04]You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before we ask you any questions and I have one with you during questioning. Do you understand that?

[01:58:13]You understand that?

[01:58:16]Nod your head. Yes.

[01:58:20]If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before questioning you. Do you understand that L?

[01:58:27]Not a yes.

[01:58:30]If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you still have the right to stop questioning at any time. Do you understand that, Lucy?

[01:58:39]Noting. Yes. Do you understand everything I read to you just now? Okay.

[01:58:45]Is it okay if we talk?

[01:58:48]Will you do me a favor and just sign that you understand your right to right here? No, right here.

[01:59:15]You remember the influence of any drugs or medication today?

[01:59:18]>> Just um alcohol.

[01:59:21]>> How much alcohol did you have tonight?

[01:59:24]>> I don't know. Anybody guess?

[01:59:32]>> I got off work at 3:30.

[01:59:41]>> Okay.

[01:59:44]>> You seem pretty good now to me. You don't smell. Do you understand where you are and what's going on?

[01:59:53]Can you tell me about how many drinks you had? Were you drinking beer?

[01:59:57]>> Beer.

[02:00:00]>> Beer and tequila.

[02:00:02]And how many beers do you think you had?

[02:00:08]>> Take a guess.

[02:00:21]drink any more than you normally would on a Friday night or a Saturday night or just more than normal or is it just a couple drinks?

[02:00:32]>> Yeah.

[02:00:38]>> Well, how many do you think you had?

[02:00:47]Do you have more than two?

[02:00:50]Do you have more than three?

[02:00:53]Do you have more than four beers?

[02:00:56]Do you have more than five?

[02:00:59]Do you have more than five beers?

[02:01:02]Do you have six?

[02:01:17]Yeah.

[02:01:22]>> So, we were going to cook outside.

[02:01:24]>> Mhm.

[02:01:33]>> You're going to cook. What we going to make?

[02:01:36]>> He made me He was cooking.

[02:01:41]No, you're talking about you're talking about who >> Yeah.

[02:01:57]>> And then we got into an argument.

[02:02:02]You and uh you and Louise, what was the argument over >> about kids? Tell me about that.

[02:02:16]things from kids.

[02:02:30]>> Yeah. Are you over your kids?

[02:02:32]>> Our kids.

[02:02:33]>> You have kids together?

[02:02:34]>> We have one daughter together.

[02:02:37]>> How old is she?

[02:02:40]>> Does she live with you? It's small. He does, but she stays small with my mom.

[02:02:46]>> With her mom?

[02:02:47]>> With my mom?

[02:02:48]>> With your mom?

[02:02:50]>> Okay.

[02:02:52]Was she there tonight?

[02:02:55]Was there another young woman there tonight?

[02:02:58]>> No, just the two of you.

[02:03:01]All right. See you over 20. How long you guys been together? How long you been married? Been >> together for 25 years.

[02:03:09]>> When did you get married?

[02:03:14]We learned during the trial that the reason that she sent their 20-year-old daughter to live with her mom is so that she wouldn't be anywhere near this abuse. She wouldn't see it. She wouldn't become a victim of it.

[02:03:28]Devastating together 25 years.

[02:03:40]married in 2001.

[02:03:42]Where'd you meet?

[02:03:48]>> We met through my cousin. I met my cousin.

[02:03:55]>> I'm sorry.

[02:03:56]>> We met through my cousin.

[02:03:58]>> Oh, through your cousin.

[02:04:00]Where >> in >> Lawrence?

[02:04:07]Okay. What does Louis do for work?

[02:04:12]>> I'm sorry. I'm not at the test hearing you.

[02:04:15]>> He's an electric. Okay.

[02:04:20]Has either of you been married before other than each other?

[02:04:25]>> Had a kid before. Me and I had a kid before. You had a kid. That's before you met him.

[02:04:35]>> How old your child from before?

[02:04:39]>> I was a boy or a girl?

[02:04:45]>> A boy.

[02:04:46]>> Okay.

[02:04:48]And is he also?

[02:04:50]>> Yeah.

[02:04:51]>> And how old is his child?

[02:04:53]>> 31.

[02:04:57]Is that a boy or a girl?

[02:04:59]>> He's a boy.

[02:05:04]>> All right. Does either of those kids live with you?

[02:05:08]>> No. Just the two of you in that house.

[02:05:11]All right.

[02:05:14]Have you ever been arrested before?

[02:05:17]How about Louis?

[02:05:21]Of course.

[02:05:35]I hope so.

[02:05:38]I tell you if he was dead and I don't I'm hoping he lives. I don't know.

[02:05:41]>> If he dies as well.

[02:05:47]>> Let's hope for the best.

[02:05:54]from my daughter of my mom.

[02:06:01]>> Why did you stab him?

[02:06:05]>> He beat me.

[02:06:08]>> He cheated on you.

[02:06:12]I >> think she said he beat me. Um, they'll clarify that. Let's uh first before we get a break, bring in Philip Tobay. He's a trial attorney. He's in Los Angeles.

[02:06:20]And Philip, this is a unique case out of a familiar place there in Massachusetts.

[02:06:26]Hey Brennan defending in >> Oh, interesting. Interesting that they should bring Philip Dubet on because one of you sent me something that um Kate Peter said about Philip Dubet the other day. She published something that insinuated that Philip Dubet was hitting on Alan Jackson or something.

[02:06:50]insinuating that he's gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[02:06:57]I'll have to hunt it down, but one of you guys sent it to me. She published something saying that.

[02:07:07]Did you anybody am I am I making that up? I have to find it.

[02:07:11]But K Peter's out there outing him. I don't know if he's out. I don't know if he's not out. I don't know if he's gay or if he's not gay. I could care less.

[02:07:19]But that's what these people are doing out there on the CSB Twitter, just in case you wanted to know, which I often don't. Here you go. And it had to do with somebody with text messages that she's been publishing.

[02:07:32]>> Overall thoughts, >> Ted, I am so glad that Court TV is putting a spotlight on this topic. I really am.

[02:07:42]>> They've done nothing. They have a camera in the corner. The only things that they've broadcast about this trial were opening statements and that piece that you just saw. They've refused to cover it. They've refused to shine a spotlight on it.

[02:07:55]Not he's their legal talking head of the day. Philip Dubet legal talking head of the day. They have not shown a spotlight on this. They have hid it from us. And so many of you have written comments under their videos, please cover this. Please cover this.

[02:08:08]Please cover this.

[02:08:11]And they said, no, Corey Richens is our priority. Corey Richens is is off today, folks. And you had a camera in there anyway. So, the support that Lucy Medina needed was before the jury was out deliberating.

[02:08:23]So, thanks for nothing >> because I am telling you that this whole phenomenon of intimate battered partner syndrome crosses all gender lines, all racial lines, and it affects everybody.

[02:08:36]I think it is so clear seriously to the outside world that this woman was chronically abused by her husband and she couldn't take it anymore. But what's interesting is that it was obviously building up after years of chronic abuse. Nobody just suddenly after an otherwise happy marriage just slits the throat of their spouse. So clearly there was some type of pathology going on between them. I don't know if you're old enough to remember a book that came out in the 80s called Codependent No More.

[02:09:07]It was that self-help book for a lot of people struggling with symbiotic relationships. Melody Bey wrote it. It was an very insightful book for its time. And it sounds like this woman was at her brink and was living in constant fear that the next beating was coming.

[02:09:22]And in her mind, at the time that she picked up that knife and did whatever she did, she thought that she was going to be first. And I'm anxious to hear from the psychologist or the forensic expert that they'll put on to explain the uh what had happened was they cut him off.

[02:09:45]Oh, okay. Did they just cut to commercial?

[02:09:49]Didn't let Philip Dubet talk.

[02:09:53]>> All right. Well, I guess >> that came out in the 80s called Codependent No More. It was that self-help book. How about the book Smart Women, Foolish Choices? That's even older than Codependent No More.

[02:10:03]>> A lot of people struggling with symbiotic relationships. Melody Bey wrote it. It was a very insightful book for its time. And it sounds like this woman was at her brink and was living in constant fear that the next beating was coming. And in her mind, at the time that she picked up that knife and did whatever she did, she thought that she was going to be first. And I'm anxious to hear from the psychologist or the forensic expert that they'll put on to explain the >> Well, you're too late because he came on the stand yesterday.

[02:10:35]Is that why they cut him off? Because he doesn't know. Cuz he doesn't Now he's realizing he's anxious to hear from the guy who testified yesterday and he's live today.

[02:10:43]That's kind of funny. Did they just pull the plug on him? Did they take out the big hook and uh get him off the stage?

[02:10:50]Did they play the music to play him off?

[02:10:57]Oops.

[02:11:05]Well, buffering, man. Uh, now that they're going to have a monopoly on like trial streaming since they since Law and Crime bought them, they're going to need to tighten up their their game a little bit because they have no competition.

[02:11:22]But they're buffering. But they'll be right back, I guess. Maybe.

[02:11:26]See if we could do this if anything happens. No.

[02:11:36]It's kind of funny though, isn't it?

[02:11:38]Are they doing a verdict watch? Who knows?

[02:11:47]Let's get back to what I was going to show you before. We were interrupted for no apparent reason because they can't seem to get their act together. Um, where did I put it? Hold on.

[02:12:10]No, it was like the uh whatever that paper was.

[02:12:18]Thank you, Terry, for your memo. Says, "Thanks for today. You rock."

[02:12:30]The Burning Bed movie was like, I remember the Burning Bed. I was severely traumatized by that.

[02:12:39]That was severely traumatizing.

[02:12:43]Here it is. I found it.

[02:12:49]Uh, this is from yesterday. This is from the Eagle Tribune, which is I guess this is a local Lawrence newspaper. Uh, and it says Lawrence domestic stabbing case televised on national court TV network, but not really.

[02:13:04]There's a picture of Hank Brennan.

[02:13:09]That was in his opening when he held up that big chalk of Lucy Medina's injuries.

[02:13:16]And it reads, "Lawrence, the criminal case of a Lawrence woman charged with stabbing her husband in 2020 has captured the attention of Court TV.

[02:13:24]Lucy Medina, 58, is accused of stabbing Lewis Medina after a July 17th, 2020 incident at the couple's Crest Street apartment.

[02:13:34]She's on trial in Salem Superior Court for assault and battery with a dangerous weapon causing serious bodily injury and domestic assault. Judge John Frasier is presiding over the trial which Court TV has entitled Massachusetts versus Lucy Medina Reluctant Victim Assault Trial. I would submit to you that Lucy Medina is the victim here. Court TV is a broadcast network quote devoted to live gabbletogavl coverage except when they don't want to in-depth legal reporting and expert analysis of the nation's most important and compelling trials according to its website. Well, you missed the boat on this one, didn't you?

[02:14:10]Lucy Medina was charged after police were called to the couple's apartment and found a trail of blood leading to a man who was covered in blood. According to a police report, a prosecutor said Lucy Medina got a knife from their apartment's kitchen and stabbed her husband after a night of drinking beer and tequila on their patio.

[02:14:27]Her defense attorney, however, said the woman was beaten and abused by Lewis Medina for years and acted in self-defense.

[02:14:34]Prosecutor Kevin Burke said, "No, isn't his name Patrick Burke?

[02:14:41]pretty sure it's Patrick Burke said in his opening statement that Lucy Medina stabbed her husband in the neck rather than just walking away after an argument fueled by alcohol. The couple was arguing about their children. Burke said he told jurors they will be asked to consider whether Medina took reasonable steps to get away from the fight and leave the apartment.

[02:15:03]She made a choice to go to the kitchen, grab a knife, and stab him in the neck.

[02:15:06]She did not take reasonable measures and leave the situation by her own admission. Burke said. "Why didn't she just walk away?" he asked.

[02:15:14]"There are no witnesses to the assault.

[02:15:16]Only Lucy and Lewis Medina know what happened," Burke noted. In his opening statement, Brennan said Lewis Medina repeatedly beat Lucy for years. 28 years, by the way. They didn't write that part in this article. He beat her.

[02:15:29]He beat her up. He beat her down.

[02:15:31]Brennan said he beat her into submission. He beat her constantly. He beat her for 28 years. He did it constantly and he did it proudly. Okay, good. At least they put that part in there. He said Lucy's act act of self-defense was 28 years in the making.

[02:15:44]This is how she lived, said Brennan, who showed jurors a large photo of Lucy Medina with her injuries.

[02:15:49]Brennan said over the years she suffered black eyes, bruises, and scratches, which she tried to hide with clothes clothing and makeup.

[02:15:58]Excuses she used for her injuries were she fell down the stairs, fell out of bed, walked into a cabinet, and slipped on ice. He also said he will be calling Medina's attorney. Well, he did. They did call his attorney who previously wrote to prosecutors stating his client beat Lucy Medina. "This is the lifetime of abuse," Brendan said.

[02:16:18]And that was the article from the Lawrence Eagles Tribune yesterday. I couldn't find any other mainstream media whether and whether that's mainstream or not is questionable in the first place. not covering Lucy Medina at all.

[02:16:40]It just doesn't exist.

[02:16:46]Let's take a look, however, at the statute.

[02:16:49]There's only one charge left. This is the only thing the jury will decide.

[02:17:00]Okay. So, it's 15 A C one. All right. So, here this is the section 15A, assault and battery with a dangerous weapon.

[02:17:29]Whoever by means of a dangerous weapon commits an assault and battery upon another and by such assault and battery causes serious bodily injury, that's the only count remaining, shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 15 years or in the House of Correction for not more than two and a half years or by a fine of not more than $10,000 or by both such fine and imprisonment.

[02:18:07]What's the difference between in Massachusetts the state prison or the house of correction? And how do you get to go to the house of correction for only up to two and a half years as opposed to up to 15 years in state prison.

[02:18:32]So that's what she's up against.

[02:18:41]And we're waiting for Log Girls to start their stream again hopefully at 1:30.

[02:18:51]HOC is the county jail. But why would it be that's what that's what I'm confused about. Why would it be county jail for up to two no more than two and a half years or state prison up to 15 years?

[02:19:06]It's confusing the way I'm reading it.

[02:19:12]So, you can do a county jail for only a max of two and a half and then they transfer you over to state prison.

[02:19:23]I don't know how that works. That's the correction. Yeah, it would be like the North County Pokey, right?

[02:19:34]So you can only stay there for two and a half years and then they transfer you to state prison and m that just says because it's Massachusetts. I know you're a New Yorker like a you're like a fish out of water.

[02:19:58]Well, please, as we wait, I I'm I'm thinking the jury wants to eat their lunch and then hopefully they'll just come out and give us a verdict. But I don't know because I learned never ever ever to bet on a jury ever.

[02:20:39]Oh, please.

[02:20:48]Well, just to prove to you that I didn't make that up about Philip Dubet. Here it is.

[02:21:14]This is a tweet from what's today the 6th. This is March 4th.

[02:21:21]And this is uh government actor maybe or maybe not. Kate Peter tweeting to Philip Dubet. Hey, Philip Dubet. You are on the long list of people Karen OJ Reid talked [ __ ] about.

[02:21:35]Congratulations. I am 100% certain that her story is about as true as the massive conspiracy she concocted. But then she publishes what purports to be part of an extraction I guess from Aiden's phone that's from I mean it purports to be from I'm not sure when September 18th, 2023. And it just says subject KR body. Philip Dubet came on to Allen once. Now he hates him.

[02:22:12]Okay.

[02:22:16]Okay.

[02:22:18]And then I I think Philip Dubet even was in the comments.

[02:22:26]Just had to show you the receipt on that so they they can't accuse me of making it up.

[02:22:31]Look over here, everyone. Look over here. Look at what's in the phone extraction. Look over here.

[02:22:38]And today we saw the O'Keefe's attorney, Mark Diller, have to get up in front of everyone in the world and uh talk about he was mistaken. He was mistaken in his in his papers when he said that Karen Reed said, "I'm dead. I'm effing dead."

[02:23:01]He was mistaken.

[02:23:08]What are we doing here?

[02:23:12]All right, we're waiting for Law Girls to come back on. Let's hope there's a quick verdict, everyone. Let's hope it Let's hope there is.

[02:23:19]What do you think? What do you think the verdict should be?

[02:23:32]In the meantime, the Boston Globe has picked up the story of um Kelsey Fitz Simmons and the Essex DA refusing to prosecute. And here it is. This is from March, well, two days ago. But at least the Boston Globe is picking this up and calling out the Essex County DA. Have you seen this?

[02:23:59]This is from the Boston Globe. March 4th, 2026. Kelsey Fitzimmon Essex DA declines to prosecute or officer's former fiance in alleged break-in.

[02:24:09]Everyone thinks it should be not guilty, but right now they pick it up. Kelsey Fitz Simmons attorneys alleged Justin Alan broke into her home on July 3rd while she was hospitalized.

[02:24:20]There's Kelsey. Looks like she's being sworn in North Andover PD.

[02:24:26]Essex District Attorney Paul Tucker will not prosecute the aranged fiance of Kelsey Fitz Simmons, a North Andover police officer who was shot in June during a confrontation with fellow officers at her home.

[02:24:39]In court documents filed in Essex Superior Court, Fitz Simmons attorneys alleged that Justin Allayan broke into her home on July 3rd while she was hospitalized. Yeah, there was also video.

[02:24:49]She was shot in the chest on June 30th by a police officer as he tried to serve a restraining order that Alan had granted against her or that Alan had obtained against her.

[02:25:01]In a motion, Fitz Simmons lawyers accuse prosecutors of turning a blind eye to the allegations because they want to lay in on the prosecution side during Fitz Simmons upcoming trial. Yep.

[02:25:12]But Tucker in a statement that identified Allayin as a third party wrote that his office had investigated the allegations and concluded Alan did not demonstrate the criminal intent necessary to bring charges against him. I don't know where this statement is because I looked on his website and his press releases. There isn't one. If anybody can tell me where Paul Tucker released this statement.

[02:25:42]Hold on one second.

[02:25:48]I would be interested to know because I didn't see it.

[02:25:53]Prosecutors said they were concerned about a potential conflict of interest and asked Middle Sex District Attorney Marian Ryan's office to take on the investigation.

[02:26:02]But Ryan's office said it also had a conflict because one of Fitz Simmons lawyers is former Middle Sex District Attorney Martha Kley.

[02:26:13]Tucker then decided to have his office handle the allegations.

[02:26:16]Okay. But he had a conflict.

[02:26:22]So he had a conflict.

[02:26:25]They were concerned about a potential conflict. So they asked Middle Sex to take it. They said, "We can't because Martha Kley used to work in our office."

[02:26:33]And then Tucker then decided to have his office handled. They what?

[02:26:38]But you said you had a conflict.

[02:26:40]After review, the this office determined that there was not a good faith basis to proceed with criminal charges against the third party just in it for the money lay in and therefore any further referral was unnecessary. Tucker's office said, "Oh, you mean at the hearing? It was in the actual hearing."

[02:26:59]I thought they said it was like a statement by Tucker himself. That's the way they make it seem, right? Tucker in a statement that identified Alan as a third party wrote that his office that investigate. So it says that Tucker issued a statement. So that's different than the uh ADA getting up and saying it in court.

[02:27:23]I haven't seen any statement because I' I've looked for it. I haven't seen it.

[02:27:28]According to prosecutors, Elaine contacted North Andover police before he entered the home and while he retrieved his belongings from inside.

[02:27:35]I want you to remind you that this is the same county and the same DA prosecutor that is prosecuting Lucy Medina.

[02:27:48]Elaine and Fitz Simmons lived together until a falling out last year.

[02:27:52]Quote, "These calls which were shared as part of discovery in Commonwealth v Fitz Simmons do not reflect criminal intent on the part of the third party prosecutors." wrote, "I'm sorry, what?"

[02:28:06]Tucker said, "The issues raised by the defense lawyers should be addressed in Essex probate and family court, where Allean and Fitz Simmons are in a custody dispute over their infant son."

[02:28:18]Fitz Simmons is scheduled to go on trial March 23rd on a single count of assault with a dangerous weapon. So, Kelsey's charge is different because she didn't cause serious bodily injury. That's the difference between the up to 5 years and the up to 15 years that Lucy's looking at here for allegedly pointing her gun at the officer who shot her in response.

[02:28:37]She has denied pointing the gun at the officer and has pleaded not guilty.

[02:28:41]Attorneys who are representing Alan in the custody dispute could not be reached for comment.

[02:28:53]Well, there it is.

[02:29:19]Welcome back to Court TV Live with you on this Friday. We're in Massachusetts today because Corey Richens is dark today. They'll be back on Monday. Uh they got the weekend off. But in Massachusetts, we're watching this fascinating case. It's an assault trial for Lucy Medina. She is accused of slicing her husband's throat with a knife, but she says it was self-defense.

[02:29:40]They were fighting, drinking tequila and beer.

[02:29:43]>> Oh, is it funny, Ted?

[02:29:44]>> She had years of abuse at the hands of this man who came forward and said, "That's right. I'm an alcoholic and I abused my wife and she's not to blame for this." Commonwealth thought otherwise. Now, she's facing significant charges which could land her in prison for 10 to 15 years. Let's go back into the courtroom now. This is her police interview.

[02:30:05]Are you still showing it?

[02:30:13]We just saw this.

[02:30:17]Is this tequila was cringe?

[02:30:23]Yeah, we're in Massachusetts today because the Corey Richens trial is off today. So, you know, we'll throw you a bone, Massachusetts. We'll throw you a bone.

[02:30:37]Break, man.

[02:30:54]Yeah, we're we're there, but we're not going to turn our camera on for you.

[02:31:00]I stepped away earlier when I was playing this for you. So, did they play the whole police interview or not?

[02:31:06]Because they cut to Philip Dubet.

[02:31:08]>> Then I stopped trying to stop the bleeding, too. And then I called 911 and they wouldn't come. And then I grabbed my purse and I told let's go to the hospital. And then I called 911 again.

[02:31:22]>> Yes, we did play it.

[02:31:24]>> Please.

[02:31:26]Where was he bleeding from?

[02:31:29]He can put he over here. That's where I try to to stop the bleeding, too.

[02:31:43]>> It's just the two of you out there, right?

[02:31:47]>> Roosevelt Media News said, "Uh, Melanie, is she still married to and living with this guy that was injured?" We don't know if they're still married. We don't know if she's living with him, but we do know that she's caring for him.

[02:31:59]She makes his meals and such.

[02:32:02]Um, and what I've heard is, and what you heard them say in court also, so I'm not really saying anything I'm not supposed to, is that for some reason he may have trouble formulating his thoughts in the condition that he is in today. So, you remember hearing that, right?

[02:32:23]She wasn't ind the the incident was in July of 2020. She wasn't indicted until summer of 2021. And that's when Lewis Medina's lawyer who came in to testify wrote that letter to the court saying if anything happened to her, it was in self-defense from Lewis Medina. And he admitted that he had beaten her for 28 years. Thanks. Goodmans are here. They gifted a membership. Yay.

[02:32:45]Gigi's here. And she says, "Eat your eggs next time, Diller. Leaving them on your face is very unattractive." Thanks, Gigi, for your fives.

[02:32:54]Roondo Beach is here and became a new Oh, welcome. Roondo Beach. I You know how much I love Roondo Beach.

[02:33:01]Law Girl said jury question two hours ago. No audio. Yeah, we got it. No, we we watched it. They were looking for the jury wanted highlighters. They wanted highlighters. Thank you for that.

[02:33:11]Thanks, Brass.

[02:33:15]When I was playing this video earlier, did they play the whole thing or not?

[02:33:19]>> Yeah.

[02:33:20]>> Thank you, Zadzia, for gifting five memberships. You're amazing.

[02:33:24]Oh my god.

[02:33:29]>> Was anybody else home in the house?

[02:33:35]>> Was anybody else home in the house?

[02:33:37]Lucy, shaking your head now.

[02:33:48]Does he ever hit you in the past?

[02:33:51]>> How often does that happen?

[02:33:54]You guys fight a lot.

[02:33:57]You sometimes hit him.

[02:34:01]He just hits you, but you don't hit him.

[02:34:04]>> I just had to walk away.

[02:34:07]Just had to walk away.

[02:34:18]>> She never called the police on him before. You know what she would do when he beat her so bad? She would go to a hotel for a week and lay in bed in a hotel for a week so that her bruises and her injuries would heal. That came out during the trial.

[02:34:42]>> How long ago was that?

[02:34:53]that help and then they buff her.

[02:35:05]>> You have a 20 yearear-old daughter in common and she lives with his mom mostly with your mom mostly.

[02:35:14]>> That's why she put her there. You guys live together and you're married.

[02:35:19]And I guess today after work, you got home from work around 3:30.

[02:35:25]You had six beers or more plus some tequila, no drugs, and you guys got an argument over.

[02:35:35]>> See how he's summarizing what she said and he's not summarizing what she said correctly because that's not what she said.

[02:35:42]Tequila.

[02:35:44]Kelly says, "I know a man living with dementia who lived in Poland in World War II. He spoke perfect English, but every bonfire night he lost all his English, triggered by fireworks being bombed." I can see Lucy doing the same.

[02:35:53]Thank you, Kelly, for your attention.

[02:35:58]Johnny New York, New York says, "Do we know what the husband's lawyer said to the jury?" Yes. He said, because we watched it yesterday. If you didn't watch yesterday's stream, go back and watch it. We watched it live. He said, "Uh, Lewis Medina has given me permission. and he's waved attorney client privilege. Uh so I can talk about some conversations that we had and he said that Lewis Medina admitted that he had been beating, brutally beating Lucy for 28 years and that if he did sustain any injuries on the night in question, they were in self-defense.

[02:36:32]Go back and watch it from yesterday.

[02:36:33]Thanks for your super chat. Arizona.

[02:36:35]Ashley says, "Melanie, I was watching Court TV earlier and they were playing the entire police officer testimony and then had the guy with the bright red glasses commenting." Well, if it was live, I can't rewind to it now. Maybe they'll drop it as a video later. Thank you. You mean Josh Schiffer.

[02:36:49]We watched the police officer's testimony. I think some of it.

[02:36:55]Thanks for your attent. But there's nowhere for me to find it right now. I can't rewind that far on the live stream of theirs because it's on their website.

[02:37:02]It's not on YouTube. So, we get what we get. Karen says, "Difficulty conveying his thoughts. Likely the rest are the result of long-term chronic severe alcohol abuse. There's no justice here, just tragedy." Thank you, Melanie. Thank you, Karen, for taking an interest in this case.

[02:37:21]We're just watching this while we're waiting for the jury to come back.

[02:37:24]>> And then, uh, during the argument, Louis started hitting you and punching you at least twice in the face and maybe your body, but you're not sure. And at one point you ran into the kitchen and you got a knife and you stabbed him and then you felt bad about it and called 911 and tried to help him stop the bleeding.

[02:37:44]Right. And then you try to help him out of the house to go to the hospital.

[02:37:47]No one else is home at the time. We're just the two of you. And since this co started in March, you guys been drinking a lot on the weekends. Is that is that what you told me? Is that accurate?

[02:37:58]>> Since co you've been started to drink a lot. You remember this? This reminds you of Harry Turk, Dr. Harry Turk, robotic surgeon, robotic urologist Harry Turk, who was on trial for the murder of his wife Katie Mlan because lawm says a drunk person still has a right to self-defense. In fact, it would be a mitigating factor in his it was a mitigating factor in the Harry Turk case that was in Norfick County.

[02:38:22]He was represented by Kevin Readdington and he got the lowest charge of manslaughter because he was drunk and he said she threw a glass at him and he strangled her in in a in a in a fit of rage but he didn't really know what he was doing because he was drunk.

[02:38:43]How many of you watched the Harry Turk trial with me? Dr. Harry Turk. Ingolf Turk.

[02:38:52]>> Yeah. Tell me how many times when you stabbed him, were you in front of him or were you come up behind him? How does that work?

[02:38:58]>> Up to 15 years.

[02:39:00]>> You're right-handed, right?

[02:39:02]>> Yeah. No, I don't think I was behind.

[02:39:06]>> Where did you stab him?

[02:39:09]The next thing I remember that him trying to stop the breathing around here trying to stop >> and that's the way I I tried to stop the breathing too.

[02:39:19]>> Saying anything to you?

[02:39:21]>> No. No. He was just I was just trying to get him up or he Oh my god.

[02:39:28]>> Where did you put the >> This is why I can't handle Court TV with the buffering the commercials. Until there's a change in leadership, these corrupt in these corrupt states, this crap will continue.

[02:39:48]Says Coco Coco93109.

[02:40:03]I don't know. Has your opinion changed on Hank Brennan? Many of you say yes.

[02:40:06]Many of you say, "Hell no." I can't ever forget what he did to Karen Reed.

[02:40:17]Uh, Law Girl sounds so good because the Court TV camera person allowed them to plug into his feed. That is why yesterday we watched it. In the beginning, it was flipped over.

[02:40:30]Uh, they couldn't help it. They had straightened it out. It worked perfectly yesterday, but today the sound was a lot better because uh after court they do a stream in their car on their way home to debrief and they said court TV guy was really nice and he said if you bring a proper cord you can plug right into my feed. And that's what he did. That's what they did. That's what the ladies did.

[02:40:49]I don't know how many win men and women are on the jury. I do not know that.

[02:40:53]Sandy, if anybody does know, please let me know.

[02:41:01]Alison says, "Have you seen the Maya retrial from March of 2027?" I did not see that. So, it's uh a year away. Maya Kowalsski civil retrial.

[02:41:12]Wow.

[02:41:16]Yes, I agree. Did somebody say that they were going to be calling the bar association or the courthouse? Please don't do that. Please do not do that.

[02:41:22]Thank you, Becky. Please don't do that.

[02:41:23]I would never suggest anybody do that.

[02:41:24]To call and complain about anything or anyone. Please don't do it. Just don't do it.

[02:41:33]Sean said, "Uh, I'm so ashamed of Massachusetts. Massachusetts used to be one of the leaders on DV and going after abusers. What happened?" I don't know.

[02:41:40]Maybe some of the people who live there can tell us what happened.

[02:41:51]Okay. Well, they're back. Maybe reluctant victim assault trial. Look at the pictures of her face if you haven't seen them. They just showed it.

[02:42:02]Let's head back to Massachusetts where we're getting caught up on the assault trial for defendant Lucy Medina. Lucy's accused of slicing her husband Lewis's throat with a knife. She claims it was self-defense after years of abuse. Let's go back into the courtroom now for more of the defendant's police interview.

[02:42:21]Dribbs and drabs, my friends.

[02:42:30]>> How much is Louis tonight?

[02:42:41]>> Was he drunk?

[02:42:42]>> No, >> I don't.

[02:42:45]>> Did he drink as much as you or less? No, he he had it.

[02:42:49]>> I want to tell you that the entire police interview that was released that they've already put on their website, Court TV, is is the whole thing is 20 minutes long. Now, they've been a they've been able to break it into, I don't know, five or six pieces already.

[02:43:03]Your camera was in the courtroom for all three days of this trial. Show something you haven't shown us yet.

[02:43:10]drinks before he got the >> show us the testimony of the three women that came in to testify on Lucy's Lucy's behalf, her friends and family who talked about how she had been beaten for years and they could see her bruises and she used to come to work wearing a shawl and scarves and long sleeves to cover her bruises up >> and didn't think he left at all. But he wasn't drunk. I don't think he was strong yet.

[02:43:34]>> Were you drunk?

[02:43:37]I don't think I was drunk.

[02:43:39]>> What?

[02:43:42]>> You were there. I wasn't.

[02:43:44]>> Do you think you were drunk or just buzzed or how do you think you were?

[02:43:50]>> You were just buzzed.

[02:43:51]>> I was being drunk because something like that.

[02:44:02]>> How do you feel right now? You feel >> I feel like the one I mean, emotionally, but you feel >> I feel like I want to die. She says that several times throughout the course of this police interview. And they do nothing. They don't give her medical attention. They don't call in a psychal.

[02:44:18]They do nothing.

[02:44:22]They do nothing.

[02:44:25]Cue the sirens. You want to do a poll?

[02:44:27]What do you want the poll to say?

[02:44:30]What do you think the verdict should be?

[02:44:32]Likely verdict or how would you vote?

[02:44:34]How what do you think the verdict will be or how would you vote?

[02:44:43]Jeppe says lifelong politicians like uh Mora Hilly are the problem ma'am in Massachusetts. Where are all of these women that you have in power there when it comes to standing up for the women defendants who are being railroaded?

[02:45:00]Guilty, not guilty or hung. I'm going to do what do you think the juryy's going to do? You feel drunk now?

[02:45:04]>> I feel drunk.

[02:45:05]>> You think you're drunk right now?

[02:45:07]>> But if you tell me right now >> Yeah.

[02:45:13]>> I'd rather someone shoot me right in the head.

[02:45:16]>> I'm sorry.

[02:45:18]>> I'd rather someone shoot me in the head right now. She said, >> "I'd rather be dead."

[02:45:22]>> You're not going to kill yourself on me, are you?

[02:45:25]>> Not going to kill yourself on me, are you?

[02:45:36]Do you remember if you sitting down in this house or what he was doing when he came back from the kitchen with the knife outside?

[02:45:50]>> What did the knife look like?

[02:45:55]>> You don't remember?

[02:45:58]Is okay?

[02:46:00]>> Last I checked, he was still alive. I don't know how it's going. We'll have to make another call in a little while.

[02:46:08]Very serious.

[02:46:11]It's possible that he'll die from this.

[02:46:12]I don't know. Have to hope that he doesn't. We hope that they save.

[02:46:22]Do you remember if you get the knife out of the sink or out of the drawer or out of the block? You remember it goes out of the sink drawer or something?

[02:46:33]Lucy, do you remember how many times he said more than once?

[02:47:08]walk you downstairs. Is there anything else we should ask? I didn't you want to tell us about this?

[02:47:15]>> Okay, the poll is up. The poll is, what do you think the verdict will be?

[02:47:19]Guilty, not guilty, or hung jury.

[02:47:24]See how many votes we can get. We've got about 3875 people that are still here.

[02:47:32]See how many votes we can get.

[02:47:42]>> Anything else?

[02:47:45]Hope he is Okay, that was it. The interview with Lucy Medina, Philip Dubet. What'd you pick up there?

[02:48:17]I got to tell you, Ted, I think the cops in this particular case have a a real obtuse, reductive understanding of what it is like to be an intimate, battered partner. And unfortunately, it's left for juries, but she was the icon. She is the paradigm of the burning bed. Do you remember that? It was that uh 1984 movie with Vera Faucet. She played Francine Hughes who all of a sudden one day just lit her husband Mickey Hughes on fire while he lay uh sleeping. I I don't know if he was in bed or on a sofa.

[02:48:50]And it was in the dawning days of the battered woman uh defense. ended.

[02:49:10]Wow, their feed really really sucks.

[02:49:15]They're not live streaming this on their website. Just on their on their I mean live stream this on YouTube, just on their website.

[02:49:38]Awesome.

[02:49:40]Well done to you guys. We didn't get a breakdown of the demographics of the jury. I don't know.

[02:49:46]Nobody wants you to see this, but now CourtTV wants you to see it. The jury's out.

[02:49:51]poll is up. Please vote. So far, 81% of you say not guilty is what you think the verdict will be.

[02:50:09]81% at not guilty. There's not even a thousand votes. Come on, you guys. You can do better. Come to your screen and please vote. 5% say guilty. 81% say not guilty. 14% say hungry.

[02:50:27]I don't know why they keep doing that. I don't know. I don't know why, but it's making me crazy. Law girls have not started their stream. They're going to start at 1:30, but maybe they were told to keep their cameras off for a reason.

[02:50:38]I don't know. I don't know.

[02:50:43]So, we can hang out together for a while until uh until we see So, we see what the verdict is if it comes in today. I don't know. I didn't know.

[02:51:00]Yeah, we need a couple thousand more votes. Civia is worse than a high school film class. Yeah, I mean, maybe a um a middle school media class.

[02:51:26]Then again, what do we know? We swore Edric Fos was going to be found not guilty. Right.

[02:51:34]Right.

[02:51:38]Kelly says, "Praying for not guilty, but she needs to get out. I love you with all my heart, too." I I don't I don't know. All I know, all that we know is that she takes care of him. I don't know if they're living together. I don't know what his condition is, but I'm hopeful. And I I'm hopeful that he I don't know, maybe in a condition where he's not able to lay hands on her anymore, but I can't 100% confirm that yet.

[02:52:10]But that's what I've been told. So, it made me feel a little bit better.

[02:52:14]because I was heartbroken when they said that in court that she was still caring for him.

[02:52:27]Adriac says, "Hi everyone. Just found your channel as found videos of this case. I just subscribed so I can chat. I can't chat."

[02:52:36]>> Here's here's the thing.

[02:52:43]because I and don't don't feel offended.

[02:52:45]I'm so happy that you subscribed. Um I have to put the chat on a 48 hour hold because there are so many trolls out there that hate me so much because I know that John O'Keefe was not hit by a car. It has to do with Karen Reed. It's nothing personal. Thank you so much for joining us and I hope you stick around.

[02:53:00]And our chat is a safe place because we have the best moderators on the internet. But sometimes we have to, you know, have some boundaries because there's some really crazy people who hate me so much. Thank you so much and I'm so glad you found us.

[02:53:17]>> Welcome back to Court TV Live. I'm Julia Jana filling in for Michael Ayala this afternoon. Thank you for following along with us. We follow this trial out of Massachusetts. A woman is standing trial this afternoon for stabbing her husband.

[02:53:30]She claims it was self-defense and so does he. Lucy Mandina is charged with aggravated assault and battery after using a kitchen knife to cut the throat of her husband Louise back in July of 2020. The prosecution says Lucy made a choice to stab Luis that night. While the defense claims that she was the victim of abuse for years and that she did what she had to do to survive.

[02:53:54]Something that's unique about this trial is that the victim agrees with the defense. We're picking it up where we left off with the defense team's first witness, the defendant's cousin, Ruth Nunees. She's using direct examination.

[02:54:05]Let's go in.

[02:54:09]>> Okay. Well, this was yesterday. This was not today. So, we did not see this witness. So, good. I'm glad. All right.

[02:54:17]Cool.

[02:54:18]>> Morning. Good morning.

[02:54:20]>> Whenever you're ready.

[02:54:22]>> This is from yesterday. This is from yesterday.

[02:54:24]>> Say and just spell your last name for the jury.

[02:54:26]>> Uh Ruth Nunees. R U T H N U N E Z.

[02:54:32]>> Good. Fine.

[02:54:33]>> Mrs. Nunes, where do you live?

[02:54:35]>> In Massachusetts.

[02:54:37]>> Who do you live there with?

[02:54:38]>> My husband and my two children.

[02:54:43]>> And where do you work, Ruth?

[02:54:45]>> At the >> These are going to be the three women who testified yesterday before Dr. Zazelle and before actually before Lewis Medina's attorney cuz that's when law girls started their live stream for us yesterday. The first at the first witness we saw yesterday in the defense's case and chief was the attorney for Louiswis Medina. So these three witnesses we did not see. These are Lucy's >> security administration in >> cousins and co-orkers.

[02:55:09]>> How long have you worked there?

[02:55:10]>> Almost 27 years.

[02:55:13]>> Okay.

[02:55:14]>> Ruth, how do you know Lucy Medina?

[02:55:17]>> We are cousin sisters. My mother is her mother sister.

[02:55:23]>> And as cousins, could you describe a little bit about your relationship with Lucy?

[02:55:27]>> We've always been very close. Uh we used to have a lot of we used to enjoy ourselves together all the time when we used to go live together back home.

[02:55:37]>> And could you tell me about Lucy as a young person?

[02:55:45]>> Very funny. She loved to dance. She danced a lot when she was younger. She liked to do her hair all the time.

[02:55:56]>> What's it?

[02:56:01]>> And I'm sorry. You were you were saying that she liked to dance.

[02:56:04]>> Can I answer?

[02:56:05]>> You may. Yes.

[02:56:06]>> Okay. I just >> She loved to dance and she loved doing her hair all the time.

[02:56:11]>> This is a female attorney who is sitting with Hank Brennan. Uh, I guess these are the only witnesses that we've seen or heard her examine. So, interesting that we get to hear her now.

[02:56:22]>> How did you do you know Louisis Medina?

[02:56:25]>> I met him when they started dating.

[02:56:28]>> And when they started dating, how often would you see?

[02:56:32]>> Not often. Maybe three times, four times a year. Not often.

[02:56:40]When you saw Luc Lewis, did did you have opportunity to spend time with them when they were dating? Let's we'll break it down a little bit.

[02:56:49]>> I could say yes, but not a lot.

[02:56:52]>> Okay. Um, when did they get married?

[02:57:00]>> 10 years ago, I think 50. Because they were together first.

[02:57:03]>> Mhm. And many years after they got married, >> maybe around 2003.

[02:57:10]>> Yeah. She went to the city hall. She don't want a wedding. So that's why we didn't celebrate it.

[02:57:15]>> Okay. Um did you have opportunity to spend the holidays with Lewis and Lucy >> all the time?

[02:57:23]>> Um do you have do you remember a time when you spent Thanksgiving with them?

[02:57:29]>> Yes. Um what can you tell us about what happened during that Thanksgiving holiday?

[02:57:35]>> U we would get together uh my aunt her mother would cook um and we just get together and enjoy the time. It was normal.

[02:57:46]>> Did you notice um anything in particular about Lewis during Thanksgiving? One particular Thanksgiving >> he would just enjoy himself. He would be he he He could be sarcastic at times like doing jokes and things like that. He would he enjoyed, you know, we we just talk about, you know, what was going on in the world and this like that. Nothing personal.

[02:58:14]>> Okay.

[02:58:16]>> Um Ruth, do you you work with Lucy? Yes.

[02:58:20]>> At the Social Security office?

[02:58:21]>> Since I got hired.

[02:58:23]>> How long would you say you've worked with Lucy?

[02:58:25]>> Since I got hired September of 1999.

[02:58:29]Okay. And you work together now, isn't that right?

[02:58:32]>> Yes.

[02:58:33]>> Okay. Um, in the many years that you work together, um, did you notice anything about Lucy's physical appearance at work?

[02:58:42]>> Oh, yes.

[02:58:44]>> And what did you what did you notice?

[02:58:48]>> With time, she was getting quiet.

[02:58:53]She there was there was there were many years that she wouldn't sleep at all. So she she would miss a lot of work. Um, >> and was there any I'll I'll ask another question. It was a little general. Um, would there be a time where you saw her with injuries?

[02:59:10]>> Yes, many times.

[02:59:12]>> And when you say many times, and the time that you worked with her, how how often would you say?

[02:59:24]once, twice, three times a month maybe that I could see because she would hide them from me.

[02:59:29]>> So when you let's talk about about the injuries that you would see. Could you explain to the jury the injuries that you would you would see when she came in?

[02:59:39]>> So at times she would come with bruises on her neck or one time she came with a bruise on her on in her eye and I said, "What happened to you?" and she said, "Oh, I failed." Or, "I was working out and I kind of went forward and I hit my eye." Things that didn't make sense to me with time, but I kept asking, but she always responded, "It's none of your business." Or she would say, "If I don't say it, you don't ask." She was very defensive with her private life.

[03:00:13]But I didn't care. I asked. I kept asking.

[03:00:18]Um, when you say that she would cover them up, can you explain to the jury what you meant by what you mean by that?

[03:00:25]>> Even in the summer, she would wear a long long sweaters. And I said, I mean, she hot. It's summer and always cold.

[03:00:34]She said she would say she would she would always be cold at the office.

[03:00:38]Sometimes it would get cold, but not all the time. Like she would wear turtlenecks even sometimes. And I was like, "Why are you wearing a turtleneck today?" And she's like, "Oh, I'm just cold. Oh, I didn't sleep last night or something like that.

[03:00:51]>> Did um did you even though she attempted to cover them up, could you see the >> Yeah, she would wear makeup more than she she never she didn't wear much makeup, but when they were bruises, she would wear more makeup and she would wear her hair like this all the time, like this. And I would notice cuz usually she would wear it like this. She would wear >> and then when bruises when there were bruises she would cover herself everywhere but because I would ask >> and when you >> she would avoid me at times >> and why do you feel she would avoid you?

[03:01:28]>> Cuz she don't want to speak about it.

[03:01:31]>> Miss pose another question.

[03:01:36]>> Did Lucy miss time from work?

[03:01:39]many times >> and how much time would you say that she would miss miss?

[03:01:49]>> There was a year where she missed months and months and months and she would have to provide letters from the doctors, >> months of work at a time. After an incident or after a time where you noticed bruising on Lucy, what would happen after the your observations?

[03:02:14]>> Roses would come. Red roses.

[03:02:17]>> How close in proximity to when you noticed the bruising did the roses come?

[03:02:22]>> The same day.

[03:02:24]>> The same day.

[03:02:25]>> The same day. or if she will get bruised. If there were bruises on her body, roses would come that week.

[03:02:33]Sometimes the same day, sometimes two days later, but they would come and they would be 12 red roses.

[03:02:41]>> Tell me about the arrangements. Were they huge? Were they They were huge.

[03:02:45]>> The roses were big. And in the beginning, we would May I speak? Oh. Oh, I'm sorry.

[03:02:53]I would ask, "Oh my gosh, you were good.

[03:02:55]Oh, wow. But then it got to a point I was like, it's creepy. I didn't like it.

[03:03:00]>> Were they always the same arrangement?

[03:03:02]Yes.

[03:03:02]>> Ruth.

[03:03:04]>> And were they arrangements that came from a a from a grocery store, a flower shop?

[03:03:09]>> The same Flores in Lawrence. Mendes Flowers.

[03:03:13]>> So after >> because I will look at the car >> and I will read the car sometimes.

[03:03:19]>> Wait. The next question.

[03:03:20]>> Oh, I'm sorry.

[03:03:20]>> That's okay.

[03:03:21]>> I have that problem. I talk too much.

[03:03:22]>> That's okay.

[03:03:25]Um and when the the arrangements would be received in the office, they would always come to the office.

[03:03:33]>> Yes.

[03:03:35]>> When the arrangements were received, what did you observe about Lucy's reaction to them?

[03:03:42]>> In the beginning, she was smiled and we would talk and we would make fun of it, but with with time passing, she wouldn't be happy. When you say she wouldn't be happy, describe how describe what you observed about her reaction.

[03:03:59]>> She would put the roses behind her and at what time she threw them away.

[03:04:06]>> Would she ever take them home?

[03:04:10]>> No. Maybe once or twice.

[03:04:12]>> And when would you say that's the last time you observed those roses coming to the office?

[03:04:23]maybe a year before co excuse me.

[03:04:26]>> We're hitting the pause button on this cousin who is testifying about this cycle of abuse for a woman who was on trial and claiming battered spouse syndrome. Let's get you to a break. When we come back, we'll have more in this trial against Lucy Nadina coming up next.

[03:04:44]There she is walking out of court by herself.

[03:04:48]I mean, come on, man. You guys screwed us on this trial.

[03:04:51]>> Welcome to closing arguments. We have a big hour ahead here.

[03:04:55]>> Your deplorable actions are unforgivable.

[03:04:57]>> The community still doesn't behind.

[03:05:00]>> Police officer died.

[03:05:01]>> He can't prove one element of his case.

[03:05:03]It was a dramatic.

[03:05:05]>> Sorry we have to suffer through the commercials, you guys. But this is testimony we did not get to see yesterday. So, I'm glad at least they're playing it for us now.

[03:05:13]He would send roses, big giant roses, and she got mad.

[03:05:21]always from the same florist. After a beating, she would get big giant roses.

[03:05:28]I'm glad we're getting to see this testimony.

[03:05:34]She's credible. She's believable.

[03:05:38]Uh listen, there's nothing you can do sometimes to try and help someone get out of a relationship like this. If anybody has any advice on for anybody who knows somebody who may be in a relationship like this that is trying to have them get help or get out.

[03:05:55]I don't know what the right answer is, but I will put up here the DV hotline for you. If anybody needs it, please call. If anybody has experience calling the hotline and you want to share, let us know. Did it help?

[03:06:12]Did they help you? Is it an amazing helpful? Oops. What did I just do? I think I just help your friends out in the chat.

[03:06:29]There's the hotline number 1800 7997233.

[03:06:33]Scott Mesid was here yesterday. He was putting it in the chat constantly cuz he's awesome.

[03:06:40]The jury is deliberating.

[03:06:43]Court TV decided to come to work today and show us some of the testimony from yesterday that we haven't seen on Lucy Medina.

[03:06:52]Oh, look at Panda. 13 days free. Wow.

[03:06:55]Congratulations. Remind yourself every day that they do not love you.

[03:07:05]Tattered Turpp says it's super heartbreaking to see her walking alone, but I'm sure she's always felt alone.

[03:07:10]The three women whose testimony we're going to watch now, law girls who were in court yesterday, told me and us, that these women stayed for the whole day to walk out with her.

[03:07:22]Kelly M says, "Don't cut your friends or family out of your life." Meaning the people who may be being under the spell of one of these very charming creatures.

[03:07:32]That only isolates them more and gives them one less person to go to.

[03:07:45]Yes, this is what they pointed out too during the trial. Don't forget they send flowers to your work. They just want other people to like them and think you're a great guy. Back now to Massachusetts. The reluctant victim assault trial for Lucy Medina. She's a defendant who's charged with slicing her husband's throat with a knife. When police arrived, she was covered in his blood, but she claims that she acted in self-defense after years of abuse. And on the stand right now is someone who was helping give the court this understanding of what happened in the years leading up to it. The defendant's cousin, Ruth Nunees, is still on direct by the defense. Let's go in.

[03:08:31]>> Could you tell the jury in your in your experience or in your observations, did the did the injuries get worse over time?

[03:08:41]>> Yes.

[03:08:42]>> In what way? Can you explain to the jury what you saw?

[03:08:45]>> I The bruises would be more like purplish. They would be black and they would get like purple, especially around her arms. So, can you tell the jury where it was that you saw the bruises?

[03:09:00]>> Because she would wear pants. I would usually see them on her arms, hands, around the neck, and sometimes her face.

[03:09:10]>> And were the bruises.

[03:09:13]>> Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

[03:09:16]>> And then brought her some water. Were the bruises um always the same color? I guess were the bruises always the same color or were they you had said that they were dark? What color were they?

[03:09:32]>> Some of them were like depending how old they were cuz some of them would get like really black and purple.

[03:09:41]>> Okay.

[03:09:45]Was there a time in in when in working with Lucy, was there a time or a season where you noticed more bruising than other times >> when she was not able to sleep, she claims because it was insomnia, she fell in the basement and she re she refused to go to the hospital, but she was cut and I said, "My gosh, you need stitches." She got she got stitches every No, it's stitches. I'm sorry. She She was cut everywhere and her hair was full of blood and my Okay. And >> thank you, weird Debbie.

[03:10:29]>> What about a season for gifting five memberships?

[03:10:32]>> Was it would in your experience did you notice them more notice the bruising more in the summer?

[03:10:37]>> The spring and the summer. Why do you think that was?

[03:10:43]>> She's not an expert. She can't testify to that.

[03:10:47]>> Probably because she was wearing less clothes and you could notice the the the injuries more.

[03:10:51]>> Ruth, did you try to >> try to intervene at all?

[03:10:56]>> Yes.

[03:10:57]>> And what would happen when you tried to intervene?

[03:11:02]>> None of your business. If I don't say you don't ask.

[03:11:17]Ruth, did you um did any attorney here reach out to you at any time?

[03:11:26]>> Did you have Let Let me ask it differently.

[03:11:28]>> Okay.

[03:11:29]>> Did you reach out to Lucy's lawyers when this first happened?

[03:11:34]>> Yes, Mr. Hank.

[03:11:36]>> Yes, >> Mr. Hank, >> did you offer to write a letter on Lucy's behalf?

[03:11:40]>> Yes.

[03:11:42]>> And did you offer to appear in court on her behalf?

[03:11:45]>> Yes.

[03:11:47]>> And did you know that the letter that you wrote on Lucy's behalf would be shared with the DA's office?

[03:11:54]>> Yes.

[03:11:55]>> And with the um and with the court?

[03:11:57]>> Yes.

[03:11:59]>> Were you ever contacted by anyone at the district attorney's office?

[03:12:02]>> No. Were you ever contacted by the police?

[03:12:07]>> No.

[03:12:08]>> Were you subpoenaed to come here today by the Commonwealth?

[03:12:11]>> No.

[03:12:14]>> Give me a >> ask yourselves why. Do they want the truth or do they want the conviction?

[03:12:20]Rhetorical. They want the conviction.

[03:12:23]They were given a letter by this witness from Mr. Hank probably all the way back in 2021 when they indicted her. Just like Lewis Medina wrote a letter saying it's not her fault she didn't do it. I beat her for 28 years. They don't care about the truth. They care about a conviction. They don't care about justice.

[03:12:41]>> Excellent way of pointing that out.

[03:12:43]Counselor, >> one moment, your honor.

[03:12:49]>> Your honor, that's that's all I have.

[03:12:53]>> Good morning, Mr. >> All right, that's it for this defense witness. So, while we are waiting for the next witness to take the stand, let's bring in trial attorney Charles Sanders examination that the prosecution may do of this witness. But tell me what you think about >> why are they pretending like this is happening today? This is this happened yesterday. The jury's deliberating. You guys are a day late and a dollar short on this and you had every opportunity to cover this and you didn't cuz we see now that you have all the footage from yesterday. Lucy needed support then, not now when the jury's deliberating. But thanks a lot for your for your e excellent due diligence and your your care for Massachusetts women been being railroaded by the system because it doesn't get you as much views as Cory Richens. Really? Okay.

[03:13:41]>> Compelling this is for the case and for the defense case where they're arguing battered spouse syndrome.

[03:13:49]>> Well, first of all, I want to say thank you for having me on. I appreciate it and uh this is this is really good for the defense so far in this case. This is the beginning of their case and chief.

[03:13:59]They have a powerful witness and I think this is only going to help help her defense.

[03:14:04]>> Yeah. And when we're thinking about this particular case, we call it the reluctant victim assault case because the husband here who is the state's victim is also someone who is saying no, I was abusive. She was defending herself. I don't even remember what happened because I was so high on alcohol or just was not able to remember the details. That's would certainly seem to be a blow to the state. What do you think is the motivation for them still bringing a case like this even when they don't have a victim who is cooperating?

[03:14:44]I mean, in this case, I mean, it's it's it's a unique situation and um and the prosecutor, you got to realize the prosecution, it's business and it's funded by the state. They've already gotten their funds together. They've already proceeded forward. You know, uh there must the grand jury found out that there was probable cause, you know, to indict her. So, they're going to keep going. They're not going to they're not just going to drop the case. They're going to go out fighting. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[03:15:12]>> Okay.

[03:15:15]>> That's fair. And they do that especially when the roles are reversed. When you have someone who uh may be someone who is abused by sometimes we see when it's the the husband perhaps who's abusing the wife and then the wife says no, I don't want to drop charges. The state often still goes forward with those. So that certainly could be the situation here. Charleston by we're going to get to a break and when we come back we're going to have more testimony in the case against Lucy Medina. We're still in the defense case. We'll see who's up next.

[03:15:46]>> I'm sorry, Crafty K7. I mean, your stories in the chat are heartbreaking, but your advice is invaluable. So, for all of you that are putting advice in the chat for people who might be in a similar situation or want to help a friend who's in a similar situation, your advice is invaluable.

[03:16:12]What worked for you? What would you advise someone else to do? And I keep putting up things so you guys can just read them as we go along. The jury's deliberating. Court TV is a daily and a dollar short on this, but they're going to make their viewers think that this happened today. It happened yesterday.

[03:16:32]There was no victim. You know, this is interesting. Chinatown, there was no victim advocate in the courtroom for Lucy. Hank Brennan pointed it out in his closing. He said, "Where's the where's the victim's advocate? There's no victim advocate here.

[03:16:46]She's the defendant, right? She's not even though they knew all the details of the 28 years of abuse.

[03:16:57]Plymouth and New Hampshire nonprofit called Voices Against Violence. They were amazing helping Mesa's lawn disorder.

[03:17:05]Thank God all of you are safe. And if you're not, it's not too late to try and get out.

[03:17:17]Mary says, "They alienate you from family and friends to the point you have no support and only have them. You feel trapped, alone, and terrified all the time.

[03:17:32]And we are on verdict watch.

[03:17:41]Crafty says, "Codependence Anonymous is wonderful. I got my soul back there."

[03:17:48]Trina says, "Even if you detest your abuser, fear of reprise will stop you from doing anything.

[03:17:56]Vir Cass says, "The trauma bond is an emotional and physical bond that is extremely hard to break. It feels like withdrawing from hard drugs in my opinion." That's what people say it it's addicting. Like the highs and lows of the relationship are addicting, right?

[03:18:08]The cycle is charming.

[03:18:13]Abuse, apology, charming. Abuse, the highs are really high. The lows are really low.

[03:18:22]Anybody watch The Housemaid? I read the book and watched the the uh movie the just the other night. It's still fresh in my mind and it's still terrifying me. The movie was different from the book.

[03:18:44]Here we go back to the reluctant victim assault trial by Court TV. They're showing us testimony we haven't seen.

[03:18:49]>> Welcome back to CourtTV Live. Let's go back inside of that Massachusetts courtroom now for more testimony in the reluctant victim assault trial for defendant Lucy Medina. She's accused of slicing her husband's throat. Nobody ever did slicing offense. He agrees, but that hasn't stopped the prosecution in this case. She says that she faced years of abuse from her husband and she's claiming battered spouse syndrome. On the stand now is the defendant's cousin, Ruth Nunees, who's already on direct, said that she saw some signs of abuse in the time leading up to this incident and now she's facing cross-examination by the Commonwealth.

[03:19:28]>> Good morning, >> good morning.

[03:19:32]>> So, did you say that Lucy is your cousin?

[03:19:35]>> Yes.

[03:19:35]>> Okay.

[03:19:37]>> This is Cross ADA Patrick Burke. Do you know Lucy since Let me ask you this. Who's older?

[03:19:46]>> Well, she is, of course.

[03:19:49]>> Um, >> don't ask a woman that.

[03:19:51]>> Is it fair to say that you've known Lucy since you were born?

[03:19:55]>> Yes.

[03:19:55]>> Okay. And you testified on direct that you're very close.

[03:20:02]>> Yes.

[03:20:02]>> Um, seems like you're very fond of Lucy, correct?

[03:20:06]>> Yes.

[03:20:07]>> Okay. And you also work with Lucy, right?

[03:20:13]>> Correct.

[03:20:14]>> And could you remind us how long have you worked with Lucy?

[03:20:18]>> September of 1999.

[03:20:21]>> Do you still um and you work together at the Social Security Administration?

[03:20:25]Correct.

[03:20:25]>> That is correct.

[03:20:26]>> Do you still The two of you both still work there together?

[03:20:30]>> That is correct.

[03:20:31]>> Do you um see each other on a daily basis?

[03:20:35]>> Yes, we work together. Um well I just wasn't sure if maybe you worked in different offices.

[03:20:40]>> No, it's the same office.

[03:20:40]>> All right. And um when you are seeing each other um every day at work um aside from discussing work, are you um talking about your personal lives?

[03:20:53]>> No.

[03:20:54]>> Never at work?

[03:20:55]>> No. Because she was very protective about her personal life.

[03:20:59]>> Maybe personal life was not a good phrase. Would you and Lucy discuss, you know, not not even relationships, but just um things that were happening in the world, things that were happening in your lives or >> like we all did. Co-workers. Yes.

[03:21:14]>> Okay. But you and Lucy would do it, correct?

[03:21:16]>> We all Yes.

[03:21:17]>> All right. And um and it fair to say when you started working with Lucy, obviously you you had known her for a long time because you're cousins.

[03:21:25]Correct.

[03:21:26]>> That is correct.

[03:21:27]>> Did you start working at the Social Security Administration first or did she? She did.

[03:21:32]>> Did she get you the job?

[03:21:34]>> No, sir. Or Annette. I came out of college.

[03:21:37]>> All right. Thank you.

[03:21:38]>> I applied. They didn't know we were cousins.

[03:21:40]>> Okay.

[03:21:45]>> She's not taking any of his nonsense.

[03:21:46]I'll tell you that right now.

[03:21:50]>> So, what year did you first meet uh Louise?

[03:21:57]>> That's when they started dating.

[03:22:00]I don't remember the exact year to tell you the truth.

[03:22:04]>> Um could you um approximately how many years ago? 20 25 >> when I met Louisis when they were dating.

[03:22:12]>> Yes. How long ago?

[03:22:12]>> They were dating before 1999.

[03:22:14]>> Okay. Thank you.

[03:22:16]>> Yes.

[03:22:18]And am I correct that you stated on direct? I think your answer was you were asked if you how often you saw them or if you saw them often and I believe you said you could say yes but not a lot. Is that correct?

[03:22:34]>> That is correct.

[03:22:34]>> Okay.

[03:22:39]And so not a lot, I think your specific um definition of not a lot was three or four times a year. Correct.

[03:22:49]>> Holidays.

[03:22:50]>> Okay.

[03:22:50]>> Birth dates.

[03:22:52]>> So if it wasn't a holiday or a birthday or a special event, would you have a habit of seeing Lucy and Lewis on a regular basis?

[03:23:03]>> Not every month. Like not really. like if I needed to pick up something or go to her house really quick, I would do that. But it's not something we we work together and we are tired because we work with people all the time. So >> So you you don't you don't see Lucy and Lewis a lot. Um only three or four times a year because you're tired from work working.

[03:23:26]>> Not tired from working. It's just we are busy. We have our own individual lives.

[03:23:30]>> Okay.

[03:23:30]>> I have a small child.

[03:23:32]Um would you um so you wouldn't normally go over to Luis and Louis's in Lucy's apartment and sort of hang out or have dinner on just a random night. Correct.

[03:23:45]>> A random night I would but it wouldn't be constantly if that's the word.

[03:23:50]>> Okay. Again, only three or four times a year including >> It could be more. It No, it could be more.

[03:23:55]>> Okay.

[03:23:55]>> It wouldn't be every single week or every month if that's what you're implying.

[03:24:00]I'm not trying to apply. I'm just asking you.

[03:24:02]>> Okay.

[03:24:03]>> Um, so >> and you were asked about a what one particular Thanksgiving. Do you remember that?

[03:24:15]>> Yes.

[03:24:16]>> When was that particular Thanksgiving that you were referring to?

[03:24:19]>> I do not remember the exact year. It was a couple years before CO.

[03:24:26]We usually would take turns on the Christmas party and Thanksgiving dinner.

[03:24:32]That particular year she was not able to hust. So we ended up spending Thanksgiving at Louis mother's house.

[03:24:42]>> So did you um would you say that you spent Thanksgiving with them every other year? Is that what you just said? I don't want to. Okay.

[03:24:49]>> Every year.

[03:24:50]>> Yes.

[03:24:51]>> We would take turns where the party would be. either at my house, my aunt's house, her house, my mother's house. We would take turns.

[03:25:01]>> Okay. So, you'd always have Thanksgiving. It would just change where exactly where it was hosted.

[03:25:05]>> Locations.

[03:25:06]>> All right. Thank you so much.

[03:25:07]>> No problem.

[03:25:09]>> All right. And then that one particular Thanksgiving, you just said it was a couple years before COVID, right?

[03:25:16]>> Three. Yes. Okay. Yes.

[03:25:18]>> I'm not trying to hold you to any specific >> No, I understand, but I want to be as close as possible. Of course.

[03:25:24]>> I have to think because it's been a long time.

[03:25:26]>> Of course. So, would that have been perhaps before 2018? Does that sound about right?

[03:25:33]>> I think so.

[03:25:34]>> Okay. Thank you. And you stated on that particular Thanksgiving Luis was there and he was you said he was enjoying himself. Correct.

[03:25:46]>> He always did.

[03:25:47]>> Always. And you said he could be sarcastic at times. Correct.

[03:25:51]>> All the time. Okay. Um but at least on or um that particular Thanksgiving he wasn't he was enjoying himself but he wasn't angry. Correct.

[03:26:07]Do you remember him being angry on that Thanksgiving?

[03:26:10]>> Can I elaborate or no?

[03:26:12]>> I think >> I can explain it.

[03:26:13]>> So I think it's a yes or no question. Do you remember if he was angry on that day?

[03:26:18]>> He was angry on that day. Yes.

[03:26:20]>> Okay. a different time. A different time than when he was enjoying himself.

[03:26:26]>> Yes.

[03:26:26]>> Okay. All right.

[03:26:29]>> Interesting that in Lisa Lot's courtroom in Georgia, every witness can explain as much as they want. They don't even have to answer the question. They could just say yes or no and they could say but and go on for another 20 minutes without being cut off by the judge.

[03:26:43]Not here. And it shouldn't be that way, by the way.

[03:26:53]All right. And you talked about your um obviously seeing Lucy at work and and making observations of her physical appearance. Correct. Okay.

[03:27:05]>> And you made a you made um a statement that there were times when she wouldn't sleep. Correct.

[03:27:12]>> Correct.

[03:27:13]>> How do you know she wasn't sleeping? I mean you can see when a person is very tired, she will say it and she will miss a lot of time at work.

[03:27:23]>> Okay. But it's not like you were living with her and observing her sleeping patterns and seeing how long she was sleeping.

[03:27:29]>> Correction. There was one time that I we had to take turns and stay at the house because she would be asleep walking.

[03:27:37]>> Okay. So there was one time when you stayed over and observed her sister.

[03:27:41]>> No. One time.

[03:27:42]>> Okay.

[03:27:43]>> Many times. Ruth is having none of it.

[03:27:45]Yes.

[03:27:45]>> Oh, okay. There were many times that you stayed at her house to sleep over.

[03:27:49]>> I could say I could say maybe three, four. Yeah. What it was? Yeah.

[03:27:54]>> Is that three or four included in the three or four times that you would see her and Louise throughout the year?

[03:27:59]>> No.

[03:28:00]>> Okay. That's that's another other times other than those three or four times, >> of course. Okay. All right.

[03:28:10]What were the dates of the days when you would see um Lucy come in with bruises?

[03:28:20]>> Usually Mondays, beginning of the week.

[03:28:24]>> Do you remember the specific month or year?

[03:28:28]>> I can say springtime and summertime.

[03:28:31]>> Okay. But you don't remember a specific month or a specific year?

[03:28:37]I can say a few I can say the months but I I cannot say with a certain you know what I mean.

[03:28:43]>> Okay. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[03:28:51]>> Your stories are making me cry. I have my tissues here because I know >> you stated, I think a couple times during your direct examination that if you ever um attempted to ask Lucy about what was going on um she would get defensive and she would basically tell you to mind your own business, right?

[03:29:08]>> She always protected her privacy with her husband. Yes.

[03:29:11]>> So the answer is yes.

[03:29:12]>> Yes.

[03:29:13]>> Okay.

[03:29:17]And you you said she would always wear sweaters when it was when it was hot out.

[03:29:23]>> Yes.

[03:29:23]>> Correct. Okay. And it was your opinion that if she was wearing a sweater and you felt it was too warm, you would find it strange that she was wearing a sweater.

[03:29:33]>> That is correct. Okay.

[03:29:34]>> And I would ask her.

[03:29:35]>> Okay.

[03:29:42]Um, you discussed >> unclear, Miss Nor. It's unclear. I think he is a privately hired attorney. He's been representing her since 2021, but some attorneys in Massachusetts who are private also take on uh public defender work. So, it's unclear.

[03:30:00]I think he's private. They did ask the court for expenses uh to pay Dr. Zizel.

[03:30:06]That can happen also. And so I don't know 100%.

[03:30:15]Thank you for your super chat. I'm a little behind on them so I wasn't ignoring you.

[03:30:20]It was because you're going to address it afterwards.

[03:30:23]>> Seeing her getting sort of elaborate um bouquets or roses, correct? Being getting sent to work, right?

[03:30:30]>> Yes. And I think you said on direct examination that the last time you remembered her receiving roses at work was about a year. Again, I'm not trying to um I know it's you're just making your best estimate, but is it fair that your best estimate was the last time you remember she received roses that you saw was a year before co >> dude?

[03:30:52]>> Well, CO started 2019, the end of 2019, right?

[03:30:57]whatever your understand because everything is with co because 2019 I think it was in the summer and then 2020 that's when things got really bad >> March 2020 is when the world shut down >> 19 because 2020 we were sent home for years for a couple of years we were not allowed to come back to the office we would tell her work >> so again I guess just to be clear what is your best estimate on the last time you observed Lucy receiving flowers at before we went home.

[03:31:30]>> Okay. So in >> 2019, >> no, it was 2020 March. Come on.

[03:31:36]>> 20.

[03:31:37]>> Okay.

[03:31:38]>> So it was around >> and they worked for social security. So they worked for a federal office and federal offices were closed even longer, I think, than private ones. I don't know about Massachusetts, but is he trying to correlate that the only time this man beat her is when she got flowers? uh cuz he doesn't have to send flowers to her her office to look like a great guy when her office is shut down. This is a ridiculous red herring argument and he looks like a jerk. And I'm glad we didn't see this yesterday because it would have been even more angry than I already was yesterday from what we did see him trying to dismantle and disparage and Dr. Zizelle, who's the best expert by the way on TV. If you didn't watch it, go back and watch it yesterday. So you might want to watch it >> the end of 2019. It was right before we went home >> late late 2019 the end of that year I think we would work from home a couple of days a week.

[03:32:39]>> Okay.

[03:32:39]>> And when CO hit really bad the surge everybody needed to be home.

[03:32:47]>> Okay. I guess let me ask it this way.

[03:32:49]Without referencing CO, what is your best estimate of the date of the last time you observed Lucy receiving flowers at work >> 2019?

[03:33:07]>> Okay.

[03:33:08]>> Thank you so much.

[03:33:10]>> Okay. So, couldn't be as bad as you say.

[03:33:18]>> And fair to say that other than your thoughts or um state statements that Lucy made when you asked her, you didn't know personally. You didn't observe the source of any of these injuries that she came in to work with.

[03:33:39]She will say that at times when when she got to her limit, she would say, "I had a big argument with Louie." She wouldn't go in many details, but she would say things here and there.

[03:33:51]>> Okay.

[03:33:52]>> When she couldn't when she was fed up at times, >> I would move to strike that answer as non-responsive.

[03:33:58]>> You asked the question, dude.

[03:33:59]>> No, we'll answer.

[03:34:01]>> Thank you.

[03:34:02]>> Ring that bell. Sorry.

[03:34:04]>> No, no, no, no need to apologize. Um but again other than what she told you did you observe how yourself with your eyes the way any of these injuries happened?

[03:34:21]>> I was not there when the injury was taking place.

[03:34:28]>> Oh Ruth >> but I was there after the fact. So, you did not see the injuries take place, correct?

[03:34:37]>> I did not see it with my eyes at that time. No.

[03:34:40]>> Thank you.

[03:34:44]>> And were you present at 18 Crest Street on the night of July 17th of 2020?

[03:34:55]>> Yes.

[03:34:56]>> You were at 18 Crest Street on July 17th, 2020 >> after she got arrested. Yes, I >> before. Sorry. Sorry to interrupt you.

[03:35:03]Go ahead.

[03:35:04]>> You asking before >> before? Yes.

[03:35:06]>> Or No, no.

[03:35:07]>> I have nothing else. Thank you so much.

[03:35:10]>> Can you redirect?

[03:35:10]>> Council questions.

[03:35:17]>> Ruth, why is it so hard for you to come up with specific dates as to when you saw bruises on Lucy?

[03:35:22]>> Because it was a roller coaster. It was up and down. It would change. It was hard for me to go because I was worried about her. And how many times did the flowers come throughout the years?

[03:35:35]>> Many times.

[03:35:38]>> Over a dozen.

[03:35:39]>> Oh yes.

[03:35:41]>> Over two dozen.

[03:35:44]>> 50 times or 50 times. I don't know. I can many times. I can say many times.

[03:35:50]>> And was it it happened more as time went on?

[03:35:54]>> Yes.

[03:35:56]>> Nothing further, your honor.

[03:35:59]Okay, thank you very much.

[03:36:01]>> That is quite a rehabilitation on redirect because who can remember dates from many many years ago, but hearing that this could have been 50 times these abuse apology roses. Wow. We got to get to a break. When we come back, more key testimony in the trial against Lucy Mandina. A friend is taking the stand for the defense.

[03:36:24]Remember, the only reason they're doing this today is because uh Corey Richens doesn't have trial on Fridays. Apparently, you guys just told me that.

[03:36:40]I wonder if they'll go live when there's a verdict. How are you guys doing on the poll?

[03:36:46]Let's see. If you haven't voted, please vote.

[03:36:49]We're We're on verdict watch right now on this uh 3-day trial. All right, 2450 votes.

[03:36:58]We've got What do you think the verdict will be? Not guilty 81%. Guilty 6%. Hung jury 13%. Let's see how many more votes we can get.

[03:37:08]They're taking longer than I thought, which I don't know what time they went out cuz Court TV doesn't want to put a verdict clock up.

[03:37:17]You guys have such great advice in the chat and so many of you are saying that you donate items to Gigi says you can donate money, clothes, diapers, formula, and so much more. Anything you can spare helps DV shelters. Clothing helps too with DV finding jobs. But where do you find the shelters? Because the shelters are are secret, right? Otherwise, their abusers would be able to find them. So, how do you know where the shelters are?

[03:37:39]That's a question that I have because I would love to donate.

[03:37:44]I've always got a lot of things to donate, clothing and other things that I usually take to the Goodwill, but if there's if I can find a shelter to donate them to, just tell me how to find them. Thank you, Gigi. Max says, "My fellow survivors and to current victims of DV, you matter. There can be a day beyond." Thank you, Max, for your 10.

[03:38:02]You're so sweet.

[03:38:07]Country Barbie said, "I watched Women Talking last night. It was rough, but I got through it. Highly recommend. I I I'm still like threequarters of the way through. It was so heavy and we've been covering this really heavy trial and I'm like I have to go back to it after. Um but I will finish it. Thanks you guys for recommending it to me. For those of you who haven't watched it, it is a movie and I think uh you have to rent it on Prime, but it's something like $3.99.

[03:38:28]It's worth the watch. And somebody brought it up to me when we we were covering the Ruth the Ruth Miller bench trial out of Ohio, the Amish woman who sent her four-year-old son to God by um putting him in the lake. Roosevelt Media News says, "Codependence Anonymous is very helpful for people who cannot leave an abusive relationship." Thank you for that.

[03:38:54]Look at the bruises on her face. cuz they keep showing that photo.

[03:39:02]>> That night started well before that evening. It was 28 years in the making.

[03:39:09]It was an investment by her husband of power, control, and dominance.

[03:39:17]>> That's the opening. We saw that three days ago. He took from her, he robbed from her her dignity, her selfrespect, her ability to protect herself.

[03:39:30]Former special prosecutor Hank Brennan from the Karen Reed case part two there in his now regular element in this Massachusetts courtroom where he is a defense attorney for a wife who's on trial for slashing her husband's throat.

[03:39:45]Lucy Mandina claimed self-defense after years of alleged abuse from her husband Louise, who survived this attack and tried to clear her name. Ahead of the trial, Luis told the court he has no memory of the event because of his alcoholism, but he admitted he has battered his wife on multiple occasions and that he is the one to blame for the incident. Let's get you back into the courtroom now. A friend of the defendant has taken the stand where in the defense case and this is >> okay that that defense that person took the stand yesterday. Serenity where did you see this? You said I just got here.

[03:40:17]The news ran a report that four jurors were questioned deciding what to do if they'll use three alternates postponed deliberations. Has that changed since this? Are you talking about the Lucy Medina case? Because we watched closings. We watched the alternates picked. We saw juror number 14 be appointed the four person and as of right and as of right now as far as I know they're deliberating. if you have um evidence to the contrary, they went I think they started deliberating before lunchtime.

[03:40:48]And so, uh I don't know where you saw that or if we're if you're talking about a different trial, but as far as I know, the juryy's still deliberating because this is Court TV live right now and they're showing us the testimony from yesterday that we missed.

[03:41:05]this curs.

[03:41:05]>> Wrong case. Oh, that's the Warner case.

[03:41:08]Thank you. Thank you.

[03:41:11]Wrong case. That's not the case we're covering today. This is Massachusetts versus L. I don't know anything about that case because I'm not covering it.

[03:41:18]We're The jury's deliberating on Lucy Medina right now. That's what we're covering. I was so confused. Okay.

[03:41:27]>> Testifying.

[03:41:31]>> Good morning, Miss Roberts. Could you please um pronounce and spell your name for the jury?

[03:41:36]>> Kirsty Roberts. Um K I R S Y. R O O B E R Ts is my last name.

[03:41:44]>> Um Kirsty, where do you live?

[03:41:46]>> I live in Lawrence right now.

[03:41:47]>> And who do you live in Lawrence with?

[03:41:49]>> My children's.

[03:41:51]>> How many children do you?

[03:41:52]>> I have three. I have a boy and two girls.

[03:41:56]>> How old are they?

[03:41:58]>> My boy is 23. My um oldest girl is 21 and the youngest is 15.

[03:42:06]>> And do you are do you work Chrissy?

[03:42:08]>> I do. I worked at the social security office in Lawrence.

[03:42:12]>> How long have you how long Excuse me.

[03:42:14]Sorry. How long do you live? How long have you worked there?

[03:42:19]>> Since 1993. I started as a staying student um for the summer job and then I would come every summer after that. So, I've been in social security since 1993.

[03:42:31]>> And full-time, how long have you >> fulltime? Since 1997, May of 97.

[03:42:37]>> And do you know Lucy Medina?

[03:42:39]>> Uh, yes, I do.

[03:42:40]>> How long have you known Lucy?

[03:42:42]>> I met her in the summer of um 1990 or 89, one of those two. I get a little mistaken.

[03:42:51]>> And how did you come to know?

[03:42:53]>> I'm sorry, 89. Um I started working in a summer program from the town of Lawrence um from it was called um Senoras. It was a summer program. That's where I met her and my sister had met her uh priorly in high school because they were in high school together.

[03:43:11]>> Tell me about the seniors program.

[03:43:14]>> Um it was a program to help young ladies in Lawrence to um learn how to type, how to um socialize. They will have like different programs for us to like teach us on engaging in the community in a different social level. I think it was.

[03:43:31]>> So, was it a volunteer position or was it a summer job?

[03:43:34]>> It was a summer job.

[03:43:38]>> And what did you observe about Lucy when you first met her at the Senoritus program?

[03:43:45]>> Um, she was very easygoing, very happy, very um emotionally engaging all the time. like we had a lot of good times.

[03:43:52]We would to hang out during the program after the program. There was always joking around. Um we also went out for lunch a couple of times in her.

[03:44:05]The jury question from earlier this morning was can we get some highlighters?

[03:44:10]They wanted highlighters.

[03:44:13]Uh, Zazia says they went on verdict watch around 10:40 a.m. We got stuck in the Karen Reed hearing, which took a really much longer than we thought. So, that's when they went on verdict watch 10:40 a.m. It's now 2:49 p.m. So, they've been out for 4 hours.

[03:44:31]10:40 Eastern. Thank you, Zadia Day.

[03:44:36]and my sister were a little more connected because they had other classes together when they went back to school as well.

[03:44:43]>> And how did you um what did you observe about her with the participants in the seniorist program?

[03:44:49]>> Good. She was um she would participate.

[03:44:52]She would always answer question, ask questions. She engaged with um the uh guiders which was a woman and a man and um and with everybody else who was there.

[03:45:05]And do you know Louisis Medina?

[03:45:08]>> I met Lewis through her um I believe it was in the 2001 2000.

[03:45:19]>> And so you met Lewis through Lucy.

[03:45:23]>> Correct.

[03:45:23]>> Were they dating at the time?

[03:45:25]>> Yes.

[03:45:26]>> And did you have opportunity to go out with Lucy and Lewis?

[03:45:31]>> Um I did. We went to a um comedy event.

[03:45:35]It was called, if you remember the names, still the queen and the queen and kings of comedy.

[03:45:41]>> And that was one particular one particular night where there was were there a group of you that went out that night?

[03:45:47]>> There was um Lucy Lewis and my partner at the time um and myself.

[03:45:56]>> Did you um >> Oh, come on. Don't do this to us.

[03:46:03]was working summertime until June of 2015 when I moved to Georgia.

[03:46:12]>> Okay. So, you moved to Georgia in 2015.

[03:46:16]Prior to >> All right. We're approaching the top of the hour. Let's get to our break, but first, let's bring back in trial attorney Charles Sanders. Charles, thanks again for being on with us. We've had the cousin testify now, and we're just starting the friends test.

[03:46:28]>> Thanks, Annie. Annie says, "Law Girls, not attorneys, posted that Hank and his co-consel, the female attorney, are paid private attorneys, not courtappointed."

[03:46:37]And I bet you he I bet you she asked I bet you the law girls asked Hank that in in the courtroom. And something very interesting, too, or in the hallway yesterday. She said on her stream that she did speak to Hank Brennan and she told Hank Brennan uh that so many of she she mentioned my name uh and said that I was covering it and said that so many of the cupcakes have changed their opinion about him and um that we were all rooting for him. she told him and Hank Brennan said to her um I mean okay but um I want to know that everyone is supporting Lucy cuz this case is about Lucy or something like that I'm summarizing maybe he really does have empathy I don't know it didn't seem to me like he was faking it and he's very expensive he's been representing her since 2021 won.

[03:47:37]Thank you. Sheree told me that, too. Um, so he's been representing her since before he was ever hired to persecute Karen Reid. And he was hired to persecute Karen Reed because nobody else in the North County DA's office would touch it, including Greg Connor, who has now announced that he's going to run for district attorney in in in place of Michael Marcy. And Michael Marcy's probably going to give Greg Connor his whole entire war chest. I would imagine.

[03:48:01]I think there's some money in there.

[03:48:09]So, I don't know how much he's charging her, but I I feel like he really believes in this case. Like, I I don't know. That's hard to fake, you know? Was he putting on an act when he was persecuting Karen Reed? And is this how he really is? I don't know.

[03:48:28]But I'm willing to uh I'm here for Lucy, tell you that.

[03:48:34]And he made me interested in this case for Lucy. Perhaps another attorney would have not done such a great job defending her because if an attorney, it's kind of like an actor, right? It's the same skills. If an actor can make you feel something, they're a really good actor, right? And my god, if an an attorney can make you feel something, >> they're zealously representing their client.

[03:49:01]>> Testimony. How do you think they did as witnesses?

[03:49:06]>> Once again, I want to say thank you for having me on again. And I think they did very well as witnesses. Right now, she's handling cross-examination pretty well and uh they're they seem to be pretty credible. And we'll see where this testimony goes.

[03:49:20]>> Yeah. What stood out to you about that uh cousin's testimony? She talked about several parts of the life of her cousin.

[03:49:28]She was able to talk about prior to uh COVID. She said really she noticed a difference when it came to CO and this of course is a 2020 assault. What stood out to you that you think will really stick in the minds of these jurors?

[03:49:45]>> Well, that's a good that's a that's a good that's a good question. But what I but I what I want what I keep thinking about what keeps coming to my mind is the evidentiary implications of the of past acts like all these past domestic violence acts. You know that's that's the question that we should be talking about.

[03:50:03]>> All right. It could be an issue for the jury in real time. Just to let our viewers know we are uh they are going to be deliberating this case but we are catching up because we've been in the rich trial out in Utah. So all of this has already been in front of the jury.

[03:50:18]Charles Sanders, we appreciate your time. When we come back, we are >> thanks for owning up to your to your misconception by making the entire audience think this is happening today when it happened yesterday. Thank you, Miss V USMC, for being here for nine months and seify >> are going to just skipped to real time.

[03:50:40]Panda says, Melanie, you truly helped me get through my abuse without even knowing. You gave me a place where I felt like I belonged. Thank you so much.

[03:50:46]I that makes me want to cry, but I'm happy that I could help in some small way.

[03:50:54]Telequinn, please email me. Thank you.

[03:50:56]My email is below in the show notes.

[03:50:58]Fanbase atmillaw.com. If you know three women's shelters on Long Island, that would be amazing. Thank you so much.

[03:51:05]Charlie says, "Really? Univil Law argues Lucy is 100% guilty today because yesterday he was calling this a murder trial."

[03:51:13]Thanks, Charlie from Australia.

[03:51:15]appreciate you. Ginger says, "Thanks for being an advocate. Thank you for your 10."

[03:51:22]Kim Sylvio says, "You're a true advocate for justice. Thank you. Thank you guys for being interested in these types of cases." Laura Riker says, "Your local cities, your local churches, cities, counties have social service offices and TV support. You can find many locations that accept donations and volunteer opportunities. In Phoenix, we have the Hope Center. Thank you, Laura. your 10 for always being here and a great part of this channel.

[03:51:46]Bessie, thank you so much for your 10, says XOXO. I know that's my nod to Gossip Girl. You know how much I love Gossip Girl. XOXO Gossip Girl. Thank you. Maggie says, "Motion for Guzma in honor of Brennan standing on the right side of justice this time. Motion granted." We have Guzma.

[03:52:06]We put him in the corner sometimes to remind us of the Guzma Coma score. And then one of you guys pointsed out to me, Hank Brennan said that in the in the Karen retrial when he was questioning Dr. Lapisada, do you know about the Gusmakoma score and we know it's called the Glasgow Glasgow Comoma Score, but he insisted it was the GMAC score. We found out, you guys told me that Guzma is a Pokemon and we found Guzma and we put him up in the corner sometimes. So Maggie says >> in honor of >> Brennon TV live on the right side. Thank you for being with us this hour. Let's first take a look at our and show you what we are looking at this Friday afternoon in Michigan. Deliberations in the trial for Dale Warner now expected to resume next Tuesday. This is after suddenly during deliberations see you next Tuesday on Dale Warner and all of the remaining alternates. They testified that they went home and watched coverage about the case. Also in Michigan, former football coach Jerome Moore. He appeared in court today pleading no contest to two misdemeanors resolving his fel.

[03:53:10]>> Wait, the jurors said they went home and watched coverage about the case in Dale Warner. What?

[03:53:19]That's wild. Oh, come on, man. With your popups and your nonsense her husband's throat, but she says it was in self-defense. and so does he.

[03:53:30]>> Wait, are they back in the court?

[03:53:32]>> Now for more testimony. This is the defense case that we're in and Medina's friend Kirsty Roberts has been testifying under direct by the defense.

[03:53:42]>> So you moved to Georgia in 2015 prior to 2015. Would you have opportunity to observe Lucy at work?

[03:53:52]>> Yes.

[03:53:52]>> Did you observe any injuries to Lucy at work?

[03:53:55]>> Stop.

[03:53:56]>> I I did at one point. It was very visual. Like there was other points that it was very like minus little um bruises like in the cheek, but it was like something that you know I didn't make anything of it. But I remember in 2014 I was going to the bathroom and she was coming back and I I almost hit her with the door and I was like I bumped into her face. I'm like it's like what happened to you? She had a very like distinct bruise and and she had just came back from work um from being away for like almost a whole week out of work. That's to go to the kitchen and I thought that was you know weird and odd to have such a big bruise out of three step down. But again, >> she would lie and say she fell down the steps.

[03:54:46]>> She gave me that excuse and I stepped down.

[03:54:48]>> Hold on. from the main floor to go to the kitchen. And I thought that was, you know, weird and odd to have such a big bruise out of three step down. But again, I I asked and she she gave me that excuse and I just moved away and went to the bathroom.

[03:55:08]>> So when you saw her when you were conversing by the bathroom, how did she look? Describe her the bruising.

[03:55:16]Um, she had a very sad distinct look on her face.

[03:55:21]>> And let's describe for me the the the physical nature of what you saw about the bruise.

[03:55:28]>> It was um from the eye to all the way almost over here to the cheek. I mean, it was >> This is unwatchable. Let me refresh it.

[03:55:37]>> So, there was not I mean stepping on the steps.

[03:55:43]Did you um did she have a I think you had stated and apologize apologies if you hadn't but did you state she had a lot of makeup on?

[03:55:53]>> She did. She definitely had tons of makeup but because we were so close face to face because I almost hit her over the door that's I was like wow it's like what happened?

[03:56:06]>> And you had said that Lucy had just come back from work about how long? I got to refresh this cuz it's making me crazy.

[03:56:23]Making me crazy.

[03:56:27]I'll suffer. We got to suffer through the ed again. Maybe that's what it is.

[03:56:33]For about like 50 or 45 red roses, long thin, which they were beautiful. Um, so I came over to her because I was on the window that day when the flowers came in. I said, "Oh my god, they're so beautiful." And she's like, "Yeah, that was Louis." And I was like, I was like, "Well, that was nice of him." She's like, "Yeah, whatever." So, she turned around, didn't talk to me much about it.

[03:56:55]Um, which I thought it was surprising because, you know, I love roses. So, I mean, she gave me such a big arrangement, I'm going to be happy jumping out of joy. But that was odd.

[03:57:05]her um demeanor towards the roses.

[03:57:08]>> Would it be so it would be fair to say she wasn't happy to receive it?

[03:57:11]>> Oh, not at all.

[03:57:14]>> Um and it was a a large arrangement. I think you said this particular >> probably this big. It was a huge arrangement.

[03:57:22]>> Huge. Look at her hands when you said how big it was.

[03:57:23]>> Did she take them home, Kirsty?

[03:57:25]>> No, she did not.

[03:57:27]>> Did she throw them away?

[03:57:30]>> Those um I believe she did. Um, the next day when I came back to the office, they were they were in the kitchen in the garbage.

[03:57:38]>> Is that the only time you saw roses delivered to the office?

[03:57:41]>> No, there was probably about twice a month at the very least. The same big arrangement.

[03:57:50]>> And did they always look the same?

[03:57:52]>> Yes, they were always red roses. Big arrangement. Long thin roses.

[03:57:59]Kirsty, you said that you had moved to Atlanta. You might have said Georgia.

[03:58:05]>> Georgia in 2015.

[03:58:07]>> That is correct.

[03:58:08]>> And so when you when did you return? Did you you obviously returned to Massachusetts?

[03:58:14]>> I did.

[03:58:15]>> And um when was that?

[03:58:17]>> That was uh June of 2018.

[03:58:21]>> When you returned in 2018, did you work at the same social security office with Lucy? No, it's actually working at that um Habra Social Security office.

[03:58:31]>> So, did you have did you work with Lucy following your return in 2018?

[03:58:36]>> Um I came back to Lawrence um early 2025.

[03:58:44]>> Okay. In 2025. Yeah. And um so you didn't have opportunity to you didn't work with Lucy on a daily basis after 2015. from 2015 to 2025.

[03:58:57]>> No, I did not. I mean, we would have like quick messages through IM like she would ask me about recipe for desserts of something like that cuz I'm always baking. So that's why she would have reached out to me to ask me for dessert recipe.

[03:59:20]When you said that you had seen the flower deliveries many times prior to 2015, >> were there times where it was better or worse? I I should say more frequent were there certain times where was more frequent than other times?

[03:59:37]>> The summertime tended to be a more frequently delivered. Yes.

[03:59:44]any of the other times that you saw the roses come, did you speak to Did you try to speak to Lucy during those other times where the flowers were come?

[03:59:56]>> Um, I I did I mean we would always come over and, you know, congrat her on the flowers. I mean, but it was always this reaction like, yeah, not happy about them. Was there ever a time that she was happy to receive the flowers?

[04:00:16]>> I will say early 2000 when I first got to the office.

[04:00:24]>> Would that be the only time you saw her happy to receive him?

[04:00:28]>> I would have to say yes that I could remember.

[04:00:33]Kirsty, did you were you contacted by Lucy's lawyers in um on her to write a letter on her behalf?

[04:00:44]>> Um I was.

[04:00:46]>> And did you offer to appear in court on her behalf?

[04:00:49]>> Um he had mentioned to me and I said, "Yeah, I'll be more than happy to."

[04:00:54]>> And were you aware that the um the letter that you wrote on her behalf would be shared with the district attorney's office in the court? He said that was a possibility. Yes.

[04:01:03]>> Were you ever contacted by the district attorney's office?

[04:01:06]>> No, I was not.

[04:01:07]>> Were you ever contacted by the Lawrence police?

[04:01:09]>> Not at all.

[04:01:10]>> Were you subpoenaed by the Commonwealth to come here today?

[04:01:13]>> No.

[04:01:17]>> They don't care for about the truth.

[04:01:20]>> No, good. You're going to try and uh >> Good morning. Nice to meet you, too.

[04:01:23]>> All right. Before we get to that cross- examination by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, let's bring in trial attorney Tamika Rabowski. is so good to have you on, Tama. Uh tell me about what you think of this witness because unfortunately the bruises, the unconvincing uh explanations, the showy apology with the roses, these are classic signs in a cycle of abuse.

[04:01:46]>> I think that this witness was perfect for the defense. She is corroborating the prior witness with respect to the incidences of uh observing bruises on um on the defendant. She's observed the kind of cycle of violence that perhaps if there's an expert to testify later about the the better woman syndrome about that cycle of violence where you have the incident of violence and then you go through that kind of makeup honeymoon type period where there are apologies and lavish gestures um showing that they're sorry and how much they love you and things like that. So, this was an excellent witness for the defense because she literally corroborated everything that the prior witness has said and what the um victim has actually said with respect to the fact that he admitted that he had been uh abusing the defendant.

[04:02:43]>> Right. Right. And we saw her even wiping away tears, the defendant Lucy Medina there at the defense table during it. I mean, that just adds to what is coming from the witness stand for the jury. Um, would you have recommended she take the stand in a case like this? We don't know the outcome, but the jury would they need to hear from her in your opinion?

[04:03:05]>> She cried through the whole trial.

[04:03:07]>> They already have. They've seen uh videos of her making statements to the police that were very close in time to the actual incident. Um, so I feel like that's more powerful than uh the testimony that she would have had there today. And again, even those statements there are corroborated by the victim as well as the two witnesses that have appeared.

[04:03:31]>> Yeah, absolutely. We're continuing to watch these witnesses take the stand for the defense. Tamika, stand by. We're going to get to our break. When we come back, more testimony. We'll hear that cross-examination of the friend of Lucy Medina after this.

[04:03:49]You know the drill.

[04:03:50]>> We are going to be there when it pops.

[04:03:53]>> Okay, good.

[04:03:54]>> Okay, now they're actually showing us the commercials instead of showing us their little spinny wheel. All right, that's cool.

[04:04:02]But not I'm so sorry that you lost your dad, Pola's mom.

[04:04:10]I'm so uh heaven just got a whole lot more more awesome.

[04:04:14]Court TV does not have a a clock up.

[04:04:17]They do not have a verdict clock up because they want you to think that this is this is from yesterday and they were so absorbed with Corey Richens that they didn't want to cover this live even though they were in the courtroom the whole time with their camera on. Thanks Tracy for being here for nine months.

[04:04:42]Krista says, "Thanks for covering this, Melanie. It's so important. I love you.

[04:04:45]I love you, too."

[04:04:47]Courtroom Cupcake says, "Alone is hard.

[04:04:49]You get me through the hard days." Thank you. Oh, Cherylyn, I love you so much.

[04:04:52]Thanks for being here for 18 months.

[04:04:55]Tracy, welcome for being I mean, thanks for being here for 9 months. Sue says that Aiden was in court to renew the restraining order against Kate Peter this morning and he got it. FYI, thank you. you. I did not know that.

[04:05:08]Uh, I guess that's a good thing, right?

[04:05:10]Here's the number for the National DV Hotline. 1-800 799-7233. Please call from a safe place if you need to. Many of you in the chat have said that they have helped you tremendously.

[04:05:21]Yellow Lero said, "Is TV only reporting on this because of the cupcakes that called? I think you guys sent emails and filled out their form and uh commented on their their YouTube videos." I don't know, but that's a great question. Thank you. Thank you, Kim.

[04:05:41]Law girls not attorneys said 27 minutes ago. Inquiring minds wanted to know and we got you had the answer. In the Commonwealth versus Lucy Medina, Hank Brennan and co-consel are private attorneys, not courtappointed.

[04:05:59]And they were two two hours ago grabbing a a a snack, quick bite while we all wait for the jury to come back. And if they did go out at 10:40, they've been out for four and a half hours. And uh how long was the Colin Gray at uh jury out for? Remind me. And came back guilty on like 27 counts.

[04:06:26]Denise called Court TV out yesterday and I got a note back today saying that they were waiting to air it today because they knew that stupid Corey didn't have a trial day. Oh, isn't that so sweet?

[04:06:39]Isn't that so nice of them?

[04:06:47]Not an hour and 54 minutes is how long it took Colin Gay's jury to come back.

[04:06:56]that tracks. I mean, it doesn't. I don't I don't know. I don't know what's going on here. We're in the inside down, upside down, inside out.

[04:07:05]Uh, Narnia, Massachusetts.

[04:07:12]Court TV has more commercials. Well, I mean, that's why mainstream media is dying, right? Is it? Or is it because they get the story wrong so often? I don't know. Everyone, please smash the like button.

[04:07:22]my other 3850 friends that are joining me to wait for this very um this verdict. I hope everyone has a box of tissues nearby.

[04:07:34]I never bet on what a juryy's going to do. All right, we've got over 3,000 votes. Okay, good. So, if anybody wants to get a last minute vote in, what do you think the verdict would be? Right now, we have 81% at not guilty, 7% at guilty, and a hung jury for 13% of you.

[04:07:48]And there's over 3,100 votes. I'll give you another couple of minutes before I end it.

[04:08:03]Rebecca from Arkansas, this is her advice. If you're in an abuse situation, make a plan. Hide money if you can.

[04:08:09]Leave your stuff. You can get more stuff. Get a safe place to go. Leave when they go to work. Don't talk to them.

[04:08:19]Allison says, "We have to get the right justice this time." We do. We do. We saw Edric Fost.

[04:08:25]>> Back now to Massachusetts. I can't do that again.

[04:08:28]>> Victim assault trial for Lucy Medina.

[04:08:30]The victim says that this entire prosecution is an overreach and is tearing apart his family. The defendant is the wife who's charged with slicing her husband's throat with a knife. And she claims that she acted in self-defense after years of abuse. On the stand now is the defendant's friend, Kirsty Roberts, who is talking about witness.

[04:08:49]>> Wait, what? Who said it's tearing apart his family? Wait.

[04:08:54]>> Back now to Massachusetts and the reluctant victim assault trial for Lucy Medina. The victim says that this entire prosecution is an overreach and is tearing apart his family.

[04:09:05]>> The victim, Lewis Medina, says this is an overreach and it's tearing apart his family.

[04:09:13]Trust me, sir. If we could get your wife the hell away from you, we would.

[04:09:17]Wow.

[04:09:20]When did he say that? Did he say that?

[04:09:21]And did his attorney testify that Louis Medina told him that this whole thing was an overreach and and tearing apart his entire family? Cuz that was written in 2021, that letter.

[04:09:33]>> The defendant is the wife who's charged with slicing her husband's throat with a knife. And she claims that she acted in self-defense after years of abuse. On the stand now is the defendant's friend, Kirsty Roberts, who is talking about witnessing that abuse from a co-orker and friend standpoint. And right now, she's facing cross-examination by the Commonwealth. That's the state of Massachusetts. Let's go back in.

[04:09:58]>> Morning, Miss Robert.

[04:09:59]>> Good morning. Nice to meet you, too.

[04:10:05]>> That's what I heard. That he's bedridden or in need of care. I don't know for sure. 1990.

[04:10:11]>> I don't know for sure. Spirit souls pass. That's what I heard. And so if that is true and he can't put hands on Lucy and she's caring for him, it makes me feel a lot better about her getting acquitted.

[04:10:23]A lot better.

[04:10:27]>> It was the summer time of either n 89 or 90.

[04:10:33]I mean, that was a long time ago, >> right? Of course. Um, so over 35 years you've known Lucy, right? Yes, sir.

[04:10:39]>> All right. Um, you met her at a summer program, correct?

[04:10:43]>> That is correct.

[04:10:44]>> Were you both um attending the summer program as as sort of um was it like a camp?

[04:10:50]>> Yes. Okay.

[04:10:51]>> It was not it was not a camp. We would meet at um Jackson Street. It was a particular place. It was like a church.

[04:10:57]It was in the basement. We would meet there for classes. They would give us all kinds of class like typing and stuff like that.

[04:11:05]>> We did end up going into a camp for one week. I'm sorry.

[04:11:07]>> Okay. thing. Um, and and I'm sorry, what year did you begin working with Lucy at the Social Security office if you if you remember?

[04:11:18]>> Well, full-time was in um 97 until 2015. Before that, she came in the office um in the Lawrence office. I think it was probably either 93 >> um >> or 94. So, did you keep in contact with Lucy between 1990, 1989 when you were at this program together and when you started working with her at the Social Security office?

[04:11:46]>> Yes, her and my sister were very good friends. So, I would come to my sister's house um in between the breaks because of um that's where I was living with her. Um so, her and Lucy had a very close relationship and they would you know interact. So, I would spend time with her when she would come and visit my sister. Did um if you know did did Lucy know that you were going to come work for the social security office before you went and worked there?

[04:12:12]>> Actually I started working there for her. I started working in that summer of um 93.

[04:12:20]It was 1992 I think it was and then um I asked oh the verdict is in hire my sis my youngest sister to be the student day in school. We're slipping. We're flipping over because f you court TV.

[04:12:36]They probably won't even stream it. Law girls are back in court. The verdict is in. Everyone go grab your tissues.

[04:12:42]Please tell everyone you know who's watching this.

[04:12:47]Verdict.

[04:12:49]We have a verdict.

[04:12:50]>> This court is now back in session. You may be seated.

[04:12:52]>> Okay. We'll bring in the jurors whenever we're ready.

[04:13:04]I don't know if I can handle this.

[04:13:29]There's Hank Brennan looking nervous.

[04:13:53]Verdict is in.

[04:14:05]I don't have an app to tell everyone. So you guys have to tell everyone there's only one charge remaining and that is the assault with a dangerous weapon causing serious bodily injury.

[04:14:39]Lucy Medina has not been in custody.

[04:14:41]She's been um released on her own recgnizance since her indictment in 2021.

[04:14:49]I don't know what her bail conditions were.

[04:14:55]Yeah, the verdict. We're here right now.

[04:14:57]What do you mean? Can we see it? We're We're here. We're waiting.

[04:15:02]live law girls in court.

[04:15:06]Grab your tissues.

[04:15:08]I might lose it either way.

[04:15:12]I don't even know if Lucy's going to be able to stand up the way she's been shaking the entire time.

[04:15:30]>> Prayers up. Here's tiny Jesus.

[04:15:59]Waiting for the jury to come in.

[04:16:02]>> All right for the jury.

[04:16:23]jurors and defendant remain standing.

[04:16:25]All others be seated.

[04:16:27]>> Mr. Poor person, has your jury agreed upon a verdict?

[04:16:30]>> Yes.

[04:16:31]>> May the court have the papers, please?

[04:16:37]Breathe.

[04:16:39]Just breathe.

[04:16:51]Mr. Four person, what say you to indictment 2021 CR239 charging the defendant Lucy Medina with assault and battery with a dangerous weapon causing serious bodily injury? Is the defendant guilty or not guilty?

[04:17:04]>> Not guilty.

[04:17:05]>> Oh my god.

[04:17:05]>> Mr. four person and ladies and gentlemen of the jury hearken to your verdict as the court has recorded it. You upon your oath do say that the defendant Lucy Medina is not guilty on indictment 21C 239 charging her with assault and battery by means of a dangerous weapon causing serious bodily injury. So say you Mr. Poor person.

[04:17:23]>> Yes.

[04:17:23]>> So say you all members of the jury.

[04:17:25]>> Yes.

[04:17:25]>> Your honor, may the verdict be recorded?

[04:17:27]It may be.

[04:17:28]>> Thank you.

[04:17:35]Okay. So, Jared, you can be seated, right? I won't keep you long, but I do want to thank you on behalf of the Commonwealth and the defendants uh defense council myself. I appreciate your time and attention during this uh trial. I'd ask you if you could, and I know we've taken a lot of your time, but I would like to come back in a few moments and speak to you and thank you personally. Uh answer any questions you may have about the process. I don't want to know and I'm not going to ask you about uh your decision making but again I would just like to extend my thanks in per in person. If you're not able to stay I fully appreciate that. I'll be back in about five minutes but with that your service is complete. Uh we thank you for your service and have a good day.

[04:18:18]>> All right.

[04:18:20]>> They didn't pull the jury. I'm not crying. You're crying.

[04:18:24]>> They didn't pull the jury.

[04:18:29]>> I know. It's amazing and infuriating both.

[04:18:38]Let this play out.

[04:18:46]And you know what Court TV didn't do?

[04:18:48]They didn't break live for the verdict.

[04:18:50]They're still showing that testimony from yesterday. That's how much they care about this case.

[04:18:57]Please stand.

[04:19:00]Miss on indictment 2021 CR239 charging you with assault and battery by means of a dangerous weapon causing serious bodily injury. The jury having returned the verdict of not guilty. This court orders that you be discharged of this indictment and this indictment only and go thereof without delay. You may be seated.

[04:19:19]I must advise you that as required by statute, the records regarding the charge for which you've been found not guilty will be sealed by the commissioner of probation and by the court unless you notify the commissioner of probation within 10 days in writing that you do not want those records sealed. To request they that that they not be sealed, you may use a form that's available on the mass.gov website. I cannot accept the form here in court.

[04:19:41]You must submit it to the commissioner of probation at the address provided on the form. Do you understand, ma'am?

[04:19:48]Yes. Thank you.

[04:19:50]>> Thank you.

[04:19:52]>> Okay. So, I want to thank um council case is well tried on both sides. I appreciate I want to comment on how professional you were encouraged to each other maintaining your positions representing the commonwealth and the defendant, but you worked well together and I appreciate that. And Miss Medina, I wish you the best of luck for the future. And with that, unless we have anything else, we're adjourned. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[04:20:19]There she goes. She's hugging Hank. Oh my god. Save that screenshot for later.

[04:20:25]Yeah, I pray that she's safe at home, too. But from what I hear, he's incapacitated.

[04:20:30]Uh, somebody told me that he had a stroke and that's why she's caring for him. She's his full-time caretaker, and that's why she didn't want to go to prison because then he would have to go to a home into a home because she still loves him. I mean, as she hugs the rest of her friends and family who shut up. The ADA hanging his head in shame. He didn't even ask to pull the jury. They always asked to pull the jury. And uh thank you to >> So the parties have consult >> Thank you to law girls not attorneys. Um they're Hold on. And I want to just put that back for one moment so that you can send them all the super chats uh to their Venmo and to their buy me a coffee um and to whatever else they have there their cash app because without them being in the courtroom and without Core TV allowing them to plug into their system I can't even control myself right now. Um they we wouldn't have seen it.

[04:21:28]So don't donate to me, donate to them because they were there and uh and they did it. and Court TV's live stream right now just to show you what's happening there. They're still covering the testimony from yesterday.

[04:21:47]That's live.

[04:21:49]That's what they're doing cuz uh you know Corey Richens is off today. When are they going to show her verdict?

[04:21:54]Ever. I don't know. We needed this win.

[04:21:57]We did. I know. We needed it.

[04:22:00]Um thank you guys for hanging out with me for this one. This was um this was so rough, but it was so important in so many ways because so many of you are survivors and so many of you have been able to get out of your situ situations and so many of you were giving each other advice in the chat during the the I don't even know how many days it's been that we've been covering this case.

[04:22:24]This feels like it's only day three that we've been covering and it feels like it's been going on for a week or more.

[04:22:29]Um, these are the important ones, you know, these are the ones that people need to see because so many people are in this situation and they don't know what to do. And you guys gave a lot of really great advice today.

[04:22:42]Um, you gave a lot of advice and and you care about each other and I love that about you.

[04:22:50]Kippy Hippie said, "Law girls tweet me."

[04:22:52]Yes, thank you. That's what got us over there. Thank you so much. Joanne said, "I'm conflicted. Not guilty. She goes home to him. Guilty. He can't get to her." I don't think he can get to her. I heard that he had a stroke. He's bedridden. She's his caretaker. I don't think he can. I think she's okay. I think she's safe. Um, and Kale, uh, Sierra was crying when I emailed you about this. She's the one who turned me on to this case. She told me about it.

[04:23:12]So, thank you to Sierra. Um, because this was so important. Happy tears all around. Thanks, Hank. Thanks, Pam, for your five. Lozy says, "Thank you, Hank."

[04:23:24]UK. Anton says, "The lawyers." Well done, Lucy. you goat girl.

[04:23:30]Um, Massachusetts is going to keep persecuting women like this unless you guys get loud about it and share stuff like this to let them know this this case never should have been brought to trial. Are you kidding? Chloe says the corruption of mass is strong. Thank god the jurors are getting smarter. I don't know. Are they? I don't know. This is a county where Kelsey Fitz Simmons is being persecuted, but Justin Alan is not. And apparently Paul Tucker, the DA, made a statement that he's not going to prosecute him. Helena, you know, so happy for Lucy and thank God for Hank Brennan. There, I said it. Love you, Melanie. Thanks for always covering the most important cases. Thanks for being here, Helena. For eight months and Barbara said, I signed back in just as they were announcing the verdict. In case you're just joining, Lucy Medina has been found not guilty. I'm not crying. You're crying. We're all crying.

[04:24:15]Thanks, Barbara.

[04:24:18]Nancy said, "Melanie, you need a drink on me." I don't I don't drink. Thank you for the 20, though. I'll use it for matcha. Thank you. I don't know.

[04:24:26]Drinking just doesn't agree with me anymore. Maybe it's like a menopausal thing. All of a sudden, I became allergic to it and so uh it causes more problems for me. It makes me congested.

[04:24:35]Not worth it. Thanks for your 20.

[04:24:37]Bernie, thanks for becoming a member.

[04:24:39]Miss Mojo Horizon, thanks for your uh super sticker.

[04:24:43]Music to my soul says, "Melanie, thanks so much for covering this case. We needed this boost to help restore some faith in the process after the FOST verdict. Love you. I love you all. Miss Mojo, thank you for your super sticker.

[04:24:53]A lot of you couldn't handle watching this because it was too close to home.

[04:24:57]Um, and I get it. Pila's mom says, "Thanks. We love you." No, I love you.

[04:25:02]You guys send law girls, not attorneys, all the love, please. Mama, she said, "I was so afraid the jury was going the other way, thinking they were saving her. I'm so glad I thought wrong." And I'm so glad that somebody told me about Louis's current situation, which um makes me feel so much better.

[04:25:26]Uh, thank you guys so much. This was a rough one, but uh, we made it. We did it. We did it. We finished it. We watched the whole entire thing. It was a three-day watch. If you didn't watch it, go back to the beginning. We couldn't get a lot of footage on this until yesterday when Law Girls went into court and streamed the whole day. They had permission to do it. So, um, thank you all for being interested in this. Please spread the word. This is so important.

[04:25:49]Uh stay cool, stay kind, stay classy, stay safe, and uh if you need if you need to. Here's the number for the National DV Hotline. It is 1-800 7997233.

[04:26:02]They can get you safe. They can get you to a shelter. They can some other great advice here from the chat. Pil's mom said, "If you can purchase a burner phone so you can call family and friends once you're safe, please don't tell family or friends where you are. You don't know if he will find you or she uh through them.

[04:26:19]And uh if thank Brendan ever wanted to come on here for an interview, uh I I would I would allow it.

[04:26:26]I absolutely would allow it. Smarten up.

[04:26:29]Lawrence PD and Essex County. I mean, this is a 2020 case. Really, this woman has, in addition to the 28 years of beatings that she took, had to suffer and wait for this trial uh for six years every day was probably like a walking nightmare for her. And I hope that in some small way she can find a little bit of peace. But I don't know.

[04:26:56]Thank you. Anastasia Ma for your super sticker. I love you guys so much. Um I think we all need to go take a break for a while. We are all spinning out over this, right? She's free, but is she? I don't know.

[04:27:12]I love you guys. Thanks for being here.

[04:27:14]Please hype this video when it's over.

[04:27:16]The way to do that is usually from your phone or tablet. When the video is over, you can go swipe through comments. Then you swipe and it says hype. And then you swipe and it says um chat. All right. I love you guys. Thank you so much for doing this with me. See you soon. Can you Oh, can you explain the sealed unsealed thing? Uh since she was acquitted, uh the records of the court will be sealed. She's got to ask for it.

[04:27:42]Remember that happened in Karen Reed's case, too. I don't remember how many days you have to ask that it be sealed or unsealed, but I think it's automatically sealed unless you don't want it sealed.

[04:27:57]Somebody can uh correct me if I'm wrong.

[04:27:59]I can't really think straight right now.

[04:28:00]And also Massachusetts and I'm in New York. Thanks Melanie Skyler for says for thanking me. Cupcakes for the win for bringing the most important cases of all. I need to go maybe take a nap or something. All right. Thank you to the moderators because they make this a safe place for everyone. And um you guys are the best. I couldn't do it without you. I love you all. I love you with all my heart. If I don't see you soon, I'm going to die. But uh everybody go celebrate. And if you're in this situation and you can't get out, please know uh that you there's help. There's help available.

[04:28:38]just rewind to get the um the DV hotline and um people care. Good night. I love you guys. Peace.

[04:28:49]Thank you to all girls. Please go subscribe, like, send them all the super chat. Gas money. Love you guys. Bye.