International Dark Sky Week 2024: Preserving Nighttime Natural Beauty

[00:00:00][Music] welcome to International dark sky week my name is Chris Peterson engagement associate with dark sky International and I'm just thrilled to kick off this event with you all um like I said today we're joined by our dedicated programs team The Architects of dark sky places worldwide as we celebrate the start of international dark sky week we'll today kind of explore the importance of preserving our planet's nighttime natural Beauty from from protecting nocturnal Wildlife fostering human connection um our discussion will uh you know shed some light or Darkness on the significance of This Global initiative so with that said let's dive in discover together how we can ensure the Stars continue to shine for generations to come and Drew do you want to give us a little intro about what is international dark sky week and I'll pop up in the slides and you know International dark sky week is always um the highlight of our year this is a time to bring people into our community to build awareness and um and just kind of spread the joy of of the the dark and natural night all right so um the mission of international dark sky week well it's a worldwide celebration of the night first and foremost and it's an opportunity to again grow the dark sky movement through Outreach and action every year dark sky we create a website a portal to help Drive engagement and I'm going to go ahead and drop that in um in the chat right now I would encourage everyone to visit the official International dark sky week website there you'll find a number of actions that you can take to protect the night including a pledge that pledge is a great way to uh it's an easy action you can take to to show your commitment to preserving the night um International dark sky week is held in usually early April it changes slightly to align with uh with the new moon typically this year is a little bit special we decided to move International dark sky week so that it would culminate on April 8th with the total solar eclipse that will be passing over Mexico the United States and Canada today for this uh lecture series you're going to be able to hear from our dark sky team about some special programs or just programs in general that we offer um and and programs that we we hold in order to help uh protect the night worldwide hello everybody my name is Brian leel and I'm the chief programs officer for dark sky International it's a real honor to be here to make this presentation to you our community and our supporters to talk about some of the things we're doing at dark sky International it's a real exciting time for us as we're uh looking forward ahead into the future uh some of the programs that we're doing and so I'm going to give you some sort of highlevel uh discussions of some of the things that we're doing why we're doing it and how we're moving about it hopefully it get you inspired to go back to your community and participate with both with your community and with dark sky International next slide so first let's talk about our vision the vision of the organization is that natural Darkness at night is protected worldwide as essential for people and nature that's how we would love to see the world get back back to and our mission is to restore the nighttime environment and protect communities and Wildlife from light pollution so that is what our organization is all about uh next slide we'll talk about um this is a strategic plan that was put together for through the uh board of directors of dark sky International and in this diagram as you look on the left with the current state where we have the loss of the night and we're losing light pollutions expanding by 10% every year globally uh obtrusive light is growing from cities and communities and losing our darkness and as we move to the right we look at ourselves dark sky International is a hub and that Hub is for both information and putting together uh programs to help facilitate restoring that Darkness to get policy makers and Industry and consumers involved uh bringing about the programs that we have which we'll share some of them with and then having our Advocates the people like you who are in our Network and really working to improve Dark Skies get involved and bring these ideas that we have to the local level so at the right the future State we can then be restoring The Dark Through the efforts that we have with the work of all of you next there's three main areas that dark sky works on these are uh and again this is a strategic plan from the board of directors one is policy which is um getting Advocates to lead movement building through dark sky policies and what we're talking about here is like ordinances how can we get our municipalities to adopt ordinances to adopt dark sky practices in States and Nations to understand and accept that light pollution is a form of pollution that is important for agencies to do what they can to support saving the night sky the next is the dark sky approved uh in the middle there where we are promoting dark sky best practices through certification programs and we'll talk about a few of those today and the third one is dark sky collaboration where we work with other organizations like-minded organizations that are environmental organizations lighting organizations and so forth so that we can all work collaborative collaboratively together towards achieving these goals next slide so today we'll talk about five different programs that we have policies the R in education program our luminaries and sports lighting program our lodging program and the international dark sky places next before I start with the ex the exact programs I want to talk about our five principles for responsible outdoor lighting and these are principles that we put together uh dark sand International in conjunction with the illuminating engineering Society uh five principles that we advocate in everything that we do and form the Baseline for the policies and our programs that we have and so these are quite simply first if you're going to have light at night it must have a use it must be useful other and serve a clear purpose otherwise it doesn't need to be there secondly if you're going if it has a purpose and it should be targeted to that purpose and and targeted specifically for that purpose so it's not creating spill light and skylow and other unwanted effects the third is that we keep that light at the lowest level possible or the lowest level that's necessary to achieve the need of that use and don't overlight there's no reason to light more than what is necessary for the task at hand number four is controlling it so it's on only when it's needed that's either turning it on or off or dimming it after hours so that it's not as bright at night and the fifth one is using warm colors because the blue colors shorter wavelength scatter more in the sky and cause more sky glow these are five principles that guide everything that we do uh in terms of our program next slide so for policy what we're doing right now is we are working with several groups in forming model um Municipal ordinance language so that they're templates really so that uh we can provide these on our website uh free to everyone to use as templates to take to your cities and advocate for uh adoptions so that any lighting that's installed outdoor light at night that's installed at night would follow these five principles uh we've been collaborating with many of our Advocates and government Representatives other organizations on this uh we're starting in the United States with the focus on state legislation and Municipal ordinances and then we're going to take these to more the International Community to see if we can translate it and use it throughout the world next this we're really looking at these policies as being simple and executable meaning that uh these will result in lowering lighting pollution they will maintain the lighting standards that are in place for light levels they have to be reasonable and practical and have to be cost effective and have industry support we've been through this long enough to know that if we don't get industry support that is very difficult to get policies pass and I think that we're getting very close at this point in addition the policy should result in improved lighting and maintain their functionality and respond to the locality uh of where you live those are our overarching principles that are guiding us it's very exciting that we're getting uh where we are and again we're feeling like we're getting uh close we expect this to be out this year for sure next the role in education program as building a foundation and common vocabulary for our Advocates designers government agencies and manufacturers this is a program where we have some grant money that's been provided to dark sky International it will be a web-based educational platform with different levels of educational opportunities um we'd like this to uh accumulate in U our biggest goal which is to lead to a dark sky qualified certification program so that if you take this education material and you pass the test that go along with it then you will have demonstrated your knowledge and Outdoor Lighting and become dark sky qualified as a designer as a planner as a lawyer whatever your role in life is you'll have a good knowledge of what it means to practice dark sky principles and be able to converse and bring these things to your municipalities and work things out with them at a very expert level next the uh core modules of the program there are five that talk about why Darkness matters we'll get into lighting principles the next one that we have is on night lighting principles which are separate and distinct from most lighting uh programs talk about these very specifically artificial light at night science and research so you'll be given a really good uh lesson on what the research currently is on all the topics surrounding light at night and then finally a session or uh core module on advocacy and policies and how you can get involved in working on this with dark sky other application modules be put together as well um some of the examples are sports lighting Street and roadway lighting community community lighting these will be geared towards educating people on how these kinds of lighting applications are designed and what what you can do about them again through your knowledge and as a dark sky qualified individual and with that I'm going to turn it over to James hi um also very honored to be part of this event um I'm a fulltime remote staff member of dark sky um I live in news uh part of the Hudson Valley in New York State uh every year I'm seeing you know more how important this movement is uh so thank you you know for being involved um I managed the approved uh Sports lighting program the approved Lumin air program formerly known as FSA um and the new approved lodging program which launched in January this year uh the dark sky approved Sports lighting uh it thite PR Sports lighting designs they create like a a vastly improved off-site appearance versus non- dark sky designs so this means you know better lighting but not the elimination of all light um you you will still see tall poles and some reflected light but the offsite impact is much less for a dark sky approved sport sliding facility so the program achieves um the following goals it minimizes neighborhood lighting nuisances by reducing the offsite glare very important um light trespass and skylow effects are dramatically lower and you know curfew requirements minimize impact on plants and animals um as well as the night sky during Peak viewing times um and it discourages over lighting by you know capping light levels to no more than 10% over is recommendations slide so um the other program dark sky approved Lumin AES program promotes uh manufacturers who offer dark sky friendly light fixtures uh the program also encourages the development of more responsible light fixture designs um it approves lighting Products with full shielding um dimming and warm CCT color um non-lighting professionals can find night sky sensitive product us in our approved database um and the program should be used together with the five principles that Brian mentioned which provide like the application guidance next slide um the dark sky proov lodging program it's newly released and it's received a lot of attention um the program does um the following things it aims protect um existing dark sky resources in Project locations um it's designed to educate and raise awareness about quality lighting design um light pollution and how to view the night sky um and acts as a best practice example for other businesses in the tourism industry um and so for a more in-depth look at the lodging program you know I'm like to pass this on to Michael Rymer thank you than thank you very much James um for those who may know me uh I am Michael Rymer uh I used to be the program uh advocacy program intern for a little bit I started with the organization a couple years ago and now on the program side of things helping with uh International dark sky places with uh amber Harrison who will be speaking after me and then working to establish the American southwest Coalition um here in the United States uh and thank you again James I will speak about the dark sky approved lodging a little bit more here next slide please so uh like James said this is just a pro a new program to uh promote high quality lighting uh at these uh locations of already dark sky quality um where people can go and uh recreate um take in some stargazing activities at a resort style place next slide um this includes for instance hotels cabins Resorts Retreat centers and other permanent facilities promoting uh this idea of ecotourism that is astr tourism or dark sky tourism next slide there's some criteria of course with this program again needs to be located in an area uh of exceptional dark sky uh so anywhere on Long the Vegas Strip may not count uh but one day we'll see understand sensitive nighttime resources and the appropriate means of reducing that light impact so again following the five principles for responsible outdoor lighting um and then allowing the uh regular nighttime access to guests and providing the education and Outreach material to the folks that come to these places uh next slide so uh to answer five questions about this new and exciting program uh let's go with the first one what is this program uh again we're preserving dark sky we're we're helping preserve Dark Skies where they already exist promoting the education promoting a high quality lighting design uh for the Facility Owners and managers what the program is not it's not like uh International dark sky places in that this program focuses more on the lighting design uh and of course these facilities in particular not larger areas as a whole who is eligible uh private or public owners with permanently installed or built structures such as Yurts cabins elaborate tents uh things of that nature campers camp sites RV sites uh that could be an expansion of the program down the road but for right now we are not focusing on those sites um so that answers that for who is not eligible and then the ties to dark sky tourism are pretty obvious um people traveling to dark sky places to experience the night sky and that's what um our programs here are trying to really show that you know you may live in an area of bad light pollution well if you go to visit a place with good lighting you know what that looks like and you can take that home and really start to make a change in your community uh which leads into uh the next section of this presentation with Amber Harrison thank you thank you Michael my name is Amber Harrison I'm the international dark sky places program manager um I am located here in the Big Bend I have to give shout out for the greater big Benin International dark sky Reserve um our largest currently largest and first by national International dark sky Reserve so I'm very lucky to call that home um thank you all for being here this is a really great uh time of year this is really important um to get everybody engaged get everybody excited about um dark sky so um next slide thank you so many of you know about the international dark sky places program um but for those of you don't this is just going to be a real quick introductory introduction to um the program just to kind of get some of you hooked and engaged um the international dark sky places program was founded in 2001 um the program recognizes and promotes stewardship of the night sky through four key actions under five certification categories we have international dark sky Parks International dark sky sanctuaries reserves communities and urban night sky places um each of those categories has uh slightly different requirements associated with each of these four key actions um outdoor lighting management and policy so what that means is that in in a nutshell all places must um develop lighting management plans or policies to guide the use of light at night um dark sky friendly lighting all places to be certified all places must um use and promote lighting that follows the five principles for responsible outs or lighting um all lighting must comply eventually um with the lighting management plans and policies Outreach and education um all places must provide educational programs events material and materials centered around dark sky issues themes and quality outdoor lighting and then lastly monitoring of night sky quality um each of these places um to be certified must create a baseline survey to document their night sky quality night sky conditions and to work um to either continue to preserve that condition um in already dark places such as in parks and sanctuaries or work to restore the um the natural darkness in built environments such as with communities and urban night sky places um after certification all of these places will continue to document their night sky quality to monitor change over time so that's really where the lasting impact comes from this program is through the work that you really do after certification which is continuing to do that Outreach and education in the long term as well as continuing to monitor night sky quality so that you can um address any potential threats that are in the areas um within your um site or the areas surrounding you so that's really um kind of what the the heavy lifting of the program um next slide engagement so far in this program uh is is pretty strong so far we have 222 certified places U worldwide so that's from the first place um certif IED in FL was Flagstaff Arizona certified in 2001 um and then recently we added four more who have yet not been announced so we have uh 124 Parks 42 communities 22 reserves 20 sanctuaries and 10 urban night sky places that spans 22 countries and six continents um together combined um one of the most uh I think impactful things of this program aside from just the the general power of the Outreach and education component to these is the policy as Brian talked about earlier we're really focusing on policies so if you look at this program you see where some of the big action around policy is if you look at International dark skate communities and reserves they all have to pass policies so that's 46 policies passed so far for communities and well over 22 um associated with International dark sky reserves in each Reserve probably has multiple um policies associated with it so that number is actually quite higher um in terms of of overall geography and spatial distribution of these places um International dark sky reserves each exceed 700 uh square kilometers so it's roughly 173,000 Acres each at 22 of those across the globe that's a big a big space for reserves alone um in total well over 160,000 uh square kilometers of protected night sky through this program um 174 applications are currently in the pipeline right now so that means that 174 places globally are currently working towards certification um last year in 2023 we had over 120 preapplication inquiries so that means those are just people reaching out to us getting excited to join the program um so as you can see through all of this our program the places program is rapidly growing um with more and more different types of sites that are wanting to join the program so um the program is really um sort of inspired by protected lands public lands think national parks state parks I andan now we're really getting a lot more um places wanting to join the program so we're really looking at how can we improve this program to to cast a wider net to include more places so we're currently working on different strategies um to expand our Horizon so keep an eye out for some changes in the program coming up um next Slide the benefits of certification are many uh this is just a real quick sampling of of all of the great things that can come about from getting a certification becoming certified um preserving the night sky of of course that's what we're all about so places preserve and restore natural beauty to support ecosystems to meet the needs of Wildlife Preserve meet the needs of Wildlife and preserve natural landscapes and our human Heritage Environmental Conservation it's a little slightly different um places promote sustainable practices reduce energy waste and preserve cultural heritage and knowledge for future Generations education outrage and experience places raise awareness promote responsible lighting practices Inspire learning unite communities and provide a place to have a dark sky experience human health and safety by following best lighting practices places create a safer and healthier envi and healthier environment for people in wildlife and of course tourism and economic development places attract visitors the increase revenue for sites and surrounding communities reduce energy costs promote stewardship and create a sense of place that people want to invest in and where to start so if you think that um you have a place that you value you have a site that you think would be a good candidate for the international dark sky places program where do you start um first things first learn about the problem um in my experience and the way that I got engaged with dark sky conservation is I saw it once you see it you can't unsee it so seeing is believing um learn about light pollution look at examples of good lighting and bad lighting look about uh learn about why pollution is bad what are the negative impacts of light pollution on Wildlife on human health and behavior um and most importantly learn about the the easy solutions um five principles for responsible Alo lighting it doesn't get more simple than that um educate yourself around the issue um start at home look at your own lighting look at your own neighborhood look at your own area lead by example and educating engage and educate others so I really think um again my experience has been that once you learn about the problem it's very easy to go out there and see it and engage others and get them get them also thinking about it um and then certify a place you value find that place that speaks to you that special place where you used to stargaze when you were a kid or or even that special place that you escape to now you escape the city you go to your your local park or go to a rural area and uh enjoy that place so work to certify those places for continued preservation um into the future next slide and I'll pass this back over to Michael rer so a lot of you are probably thinking about these programs s and like Amber's slide said you know well what where do you start well and what can I do and to to Echo what Amber said education is always going to be the first piece so if you're interested in participating in any way or in any of these programs go to our website darksky.org and please read thoroughly and carefully through these programs there's a lot of information but these are very depth and involved processes um and is for a good reason because we're doing a lot of hard work so please familiarize yourselves with our guidelines and the eligibility requirements um that's going to be your first step look at our FAQ Pages as well um to to get as many as your your answers questioned uh questions answered excuse me um from the beginning then promote these programs encourage your town your neighborhoods your friends and family to promote uh the five principles of responsible outdoor lighting um again like Amber said the change can start at home um visit any of these places in our programs a dark sky place a lodge Sports a certified Sports field um to really see what good lighting looks like in practice um and then get familiar with your local lighting ordinances because policy is where big change happens so if you have one on the books check it out see where it could be updated and try to uh talk with your local leaders to see about making that happen if there's not one in place well you got a blank slate to start with to really get something on the books for good good responsible Outdoor Lighting in your community and you do it by getting connected with your neighbors others who live in the community because as we see in our Advocate Network a strong Global community is what drives change and more voices will be heard and because they'll be louder so you guys being here today is a great step if you're just now starting to get involved with dark sky International and the dark sky movement um so we appreciate the time uh and the support that you're giving to us here um learn from each other and learn from us we're community that shares and delights and education so the more you know the more you grow and uh with that Chris I'll toss it back to you thanks Michael and I will just throw up this slide for one minute if you did want to get in contact with any of our programs team of course visit darksky.org to learn more otherwise these folks would be more than willing to help you out or point you in the right direction of further resources um before we get into the Q&A portion I'll give you folks a minute to do submit any other questions you have either via the chat or Q&A feature the screen um feel free to ask about our programs what dark sky is up to if we can't take a question we'll make sure to get back to you uh offline either through email or otherwise so with that give me one moment and I'll will navigate over to the Q&A portion so we can get that rolling so uh some the first question I guess Brian James Amber Michael whoever wants to take it feel free um somebody asked do you take into account the members input for different goals of dark sky International that you presented so Brian talking from those earlier slides um for as a as a astrophysicist dark skies are important feel like there might be some other angles of discussion to promote dark sky let me turn off mute yeah the answer to that is we really do take into account many many different perspectives uh on this we have to um and so uh as an example with the um ordinance work that we're doing right now we have a group of Advocates that are currently working their way to trying to get legislation passed as one group then we are working with um uh industry in terms of the illumin engineering society and the International Association of lighting designers and lighting design professionals and their group we have our own technical committee that's has a pretty good widespread distribution of folks and then we have manufacturers that we talk to um and the on policy it's really important that we understand all of these perspectives and it's not that we're uh not that we are compromising our principles it's how do we best achieve our goals of reducing light pollution in connection with all of those parties who have involvement with it um if we don't include uh all these different perspectives then that's when we find that um you get opposition to what we're doing and so it's really important for us to work with everybody to try to get um the best that we possibly can in a constructive dialogue so that everybody works together so you know as an example I would say that the Lumin AES program the formal fixture seal of approval program has really you know made some uh fundamental changes in the way people buy products by looking for products that are shielded and don't have any uplight and that's a good move and the more that we can do with things like this so that people become exposed to and recognize these benefits the better off we are I hope that answers the question yeah thanks Brian Kathy in the chat makes a good point the difference is that our community leaders work for us we're paying their salaries that's really good here another question to the programs team is there any plan to further develop dark sky tourism development training for idps Advocates parentheses lodging certifications to add to dark sky education pillar yeah I I'll take that and then I can ask Michael uh to add some to it if he'd like uh with the Roland program the dark Sky qualified um moniker if you um take the courses you pass the test you become dark sky qualified that could also uh include uh ecotourism uh or astrotourism specifically uh if we add different modules so that people can be certified in terms of training and then we also provide module materials on it we could have a dark sky certified program as an example that could be taken into these dark sky lodges uh and then way we'd have a uniform uh program that could be taught at The Lodges through a dark sky certified program and certified instructors uh that is something we do have on the plans that probably is going to take a little bit longer uh the Roland pilot probably will be toward the end of this year so that kind of an IDE it's going to be out a little bit further probably another year or more as it gets going but Michael do you want to add anything to that this is nid that you and I talked about yeah yeah this this would be um a great program uh in the future down the road to certify those who are as tourism professionals um because they are kind of the front lines as well as advocates as far as people who you know work in this new and very exciting and fast growing industry um so of course we want input from those who are already kind of working in in those ranks because you know the are the people that introduce so many to the night sky and so we want to have uh them to be really you know involved in promoting dark sky awareness and best practice while celebrating you know actively celebrating this Cosmos that we live in so yeah uh this is something that I personally studied myself uh through University so um I it's an exciting program that I have in the back of my mind and that Brian and I like he said have talked about so we hope to um get something like this stirred up here um in the coming year or so thanks thanks Michael thanks Brian um I did notice in the chat there was a question about can't find it right now about how it might be easier to talk to your neighbor than it would be to talk to city council or Representatives I would say as a dark sky Advocate up here in the Greater Minnesota region I was at my city council meeting last night and just introduced myself hi I care about light pollution my name's Chris I'm going to email every single person up here and I've already gotten three responses and they want to set up meetings to learn more and to discuss this topic because they're people like you they see these glaring lights they appreciate the Wilderness and they want to learn more they want that re those resources or research to make informed decisions so they are willing to talk to those folks it just takes you going down to the city office and attending a meeting or sending an email you'd be surprised at the response you can get so a few other questions we have here um maybe an easy one is uh there any partnership with uh like the aabon or birding groups uh in relation to dark sky places or protection uh the simple answer is yes and uh I'll just give an example of that uh last uh late fall we had a regional or excuse me a New Mexico chapter meeting uh to get that started in that area Michael was involved with that and we invited several environmental groups one of them being the Autobon as well as Xerxes which is having to do with pollinators uh bees and so forth and these are really important issues for us to work with going on with um Birds migratory paths being affected and or running into um buildings that are illuminated being attracted into the buildings and so forth and nighttime pollinators losing so much of um them uh to light pollution because they're attracted to it and get disoriented and causing a lot of problems with their ecosystem so we are working with them very much yeah how about a question for the group um of programs team it's such an important issue Deborah States but a little hard to explain succinctly to sum it up why are Dark Skies important that's the big big old question there huh I think it depends who you are also I think if you're an astronomer you probably care mostly about you know uplight um but if you're you know a wildlife specialist you might care more about how bright and shielded it is and the color and you know where it's impacting you know a wild area so I think it depends a little bit who you are and your perspective I think that historically uh International or dark International dark sky now dark sky International um focused on the astronomic side of it but as with all knowledge and as we are learning about our environment what we are learning now is that this is having a potentially a great impact on um the environment Visa the reduction of insect populations which has a downstream effect on other forms of life and I think that while we're just starting to understand this I think that it becomes a much kind of higher level concern as an environmental concern and um we are certainly looking at that very closely for me I would say um it really I mean there's so many reasons as as we all just noted but um I think really it's influence on our behavior and well-being um and same as you know the impact on the natural environment as well um so just the the the presence of artificial light really influences the way that living organisms behave and how our behaviors are modified as a result of that and over the long term the impacts can be quite negative so I think really just our experience as well as just our human Heritage and our relationship to the night sky and the value of that to our story of our human history um I think is is we we stand to lose a lot if we um don't bring the sky into the full picture of our Resource Management U practices so I think there's a lot to lose and it's very complicated very complex topic I think if you care about sustainability then you need to really consider light pollution as one of those aspects of sustainability yeah yeah and and James to kind of piggyback off that when I have a conversation with someone about this topic and they don't know too much about it I always ask them what outside of light pollution what is their biggest concern in their life is it finances is it environmental you know uh Consciousness what what is it and then relate light pollution and dark sky protection to that issue because that's what they care most about because this issue branches and covers so much in our world not just our ability to see the night sky so you know a lot of people may not care so much about stargazing but they sure do care about their electricity bill so it kind of letting your audience tell you what's important to them is is also a great way of kind of breaching that conversation yeah may I chime in on something Gary fugman from Nebraska yeah go for it g okay thank you very much so um I have approached the County Board of Supervisors here in eastern Nebraska we're halfway between Sous City and Omaha and we have a dark sky um and I found that you you need we've historically approached this issue from an economic standpoint let us save you money as as uh government officials and they'll listen to that for a while but then I've also found that they're a little reluctant once they get into the aspect of okay these regulations do what and and then they have been a little reluctant because in Rural America it's like how are we going to enforce this how retroactive is it going to be is it going to be from here on out or is it going to be retroactive and how do we enforce uh lumens emitted from a from a from a luminary so that's that's been a concern here and uh I I've had people you know in meetings get around to thinking about the problem but not acting upon the problem because uh they're they're worried about enforcement and who's going to do the enforcing and what it's going to do to the neighbors there's another question we've got a few different ways in the chat and it's just one of my favorites from going to a table event or talking to people and it's a heavy one does brighter mean safer yeah psychologically people believe that just look at just look at your big uh pickup trucks that are rolling around new late model pickup trucks you flash your lights at them and they flash something even brighter back at you and and it's a very annoying it I think dangerous number one the answer is that um if if the what is being lit is brighter that means the light source is brighter and the brighter the light source it is the more blinding the light source and the more BL blinding the light source is the less safe you are right so it really has to do with proper design of shielding the fixture and actually keeping your adaptation lower because the higher you bring the light level up again what happens is the sources become brighter and that Bec comes a source of glare and a blinding Factor so what's counterintuitive to most people but what's actually the truth is if you have shielded fixtures you don't need to increase the light levels significantly to see better at all uh it really is it's really what happens is it's this thing that as soon as you brighten it up and the light source seems brighter then you feel like you have to make it brighter still and so you know the the uh analogy I always use is the gas stations competing across the corner from each other right one one gets one level the next one across the street thinks they have to be brighter because they have to compete with them it looks more open or it looks more safe it's not really it is basically a perception and that's one of the things that we have to work on in our education program yeah indeed with that we'll take one more question but folks if you do have other comments or questions for us feel free to post it into the chat we can get back to you after our live event but the last question is really where can we draw in insiration from are there any states governments municipalities taking strong action that it may be worth looking to when it comes to Dark Skies um I will say just to plug Eileen I think you're out there in the webis spere world somewhere the Everglades um n Park and City counties all over are have made proclamations for either dark sky week or dark sky month this is an important topic and it's trending locally but to the programs team um where would you look for that inspiration Amber would know well um God I would say looking to other on a basic level looking to other certified sites places to go and have an experience so um you know going to that place having that experience seeing it I you know I can't say it enough but seeing it doing the demonstrations um what what Brian was just talking about about light levels if you can somehow capture that and put it in a demonstration and teach people seeing that is the inspiration because my experience and the whole reason why I got here was because I was shown at an observatory light pollution and when I left that very dark night and I walked outside I could see light pollution everywhere and so seeing it is believing it and man once you see it you can unsee it so um you know Finding inspiration by going to those places seeing what they're doing seeing how it works seeing how simple it is and then going and spreading that uh message to your to your neighbors and friends and communities and up the chain so um I'll I'll be quiet now so somebody else no I I just want to Echo what you said though Amber because it's it's seeing light pollution but it's also for many people who live in the city and who has never seen a dark Sky yeah it's going out to see what a dark sky looks like yep I mean over 90% of the people in the United States can't see the Milky Way where they live and so by by using the dark sky places program and the lodging places by you know really trying to help promote these places so that people can be exposed to it then that gives them the inspiration to say I want to do something about this like Amber said and that's why we do so much in terms of what we're doing to celebrate those places um that are dark that we try to preserve them that we try to protect them so that um first of all that people still have the ability to see it somewhere thank goodness we have that and in when so doing that they become inspired to uh act locally to try to do what they can to protect where they live I'd like to add just one more um sort of point to that that related to something else that was brought up in terms of like how you engage your communities and your councils to to sort of get the you know the higher Pie in the Sky goal of policy is looking towards especially like International dark sky reserves where they've done a lot of work a lot of them like I said earlier have policies and they've got multiple policies that have had to be passed for each certification so out here in the Big Bend for example we had to pass um six counties and five municipalities I can't remember but it was it was it was a massive amount of work it was very difficult so looking to those places that have um really done the heavy lifting and have made these things happen that seem unattainable these you know challenges seem so difficult that you can look to these places though and say it is possible to do this um and there are a lot of uh especially the reserves and communities that have done it so looking to those places for inspiration and guidance I think is is really a good step as well because they've they've done the hard work yeah thanks thanks programs team Brian James Amber Michaels thank you so much for sharing your words of wisdom with us today and good work about the programs and also I just want to thank you all everybody for joining us today if you're looking to get a recording of this we'll post it to YouTube shortly otherwise I'll give you a moment to send any more chats and we'll make sure to down that get your comments for followup make sure to check out the rest of our week's events available on idsw darksky.org tomorrow at the same time we'll be hosting uh Dr Avalon Owens and talking about the impact of artificial lights on insects should be a very interesting topic so folks thanks again we look forward to seeing you at the next one and happy International dark sky week